I Have A Question About The Dialectic of History According to Marxists

[aelf]

Because most people aren't bitter, frustrated, self loathing extremists?

What kind of poster are you if not bitter?

 

[Angst]

not specifically answering bernie here but it's usually not constructive to answer poverty and societal collapse with "u mad bro"

 

[bernie14]

What kind of poster are you if not bitter?

I am delicious

 

[bernie14]

not specifically answering bernie here but it's usually not constructive to answer poverty and societal collapse with "u mad bro"

Nah. I was just answering a very specific question

 

[Hygro]

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is the stupidest slogan I have ever heard

Is that not just what a person does when they are well adjusted personally, when well situated socially?

 

[Hygro]

I can't imagine how everybody could be guaranteed a good spouse, but what's really stopping society from distributing satisfactory work for everybody? Is some essential work innately less than satisfactory or is there not enough satisfactory work worth doing?

Sucking the s*** out of portapotties is definitely less satisfactory than architecting something important and appreciated, especially if your ability to do it is scarce.

 

[Lexicus]

no exchange.

Where does it say this

Sucking the s*** out of portapotties is definitely less satisfactory than architecting something important and appreciated, especially if your ability to do it is scarce.

If I got paid $10,000 an hour to do the poop job but got paid the tipped minimum wage to do the architecting job, the poop job would be more satisfactory

 

[Hygro]

The council of wages decides that the poop jobs pay more. The council of labor allocation declares that cultural events are too expensive and reduces permits. Only those of maximal importance remain, as decided by the council of preserving unity.

 

[amadeus]

Where does it say this

I don’t know, but why would there be if communism has eliminated scarcity? It wouldn’t make sense for me to try and trade my onion for your carrot because I could just go to the warehouse and take my own carrot, no?

 

[Joij21]

Appears to be working in Finland.
They provide them a home first and then look at what assistance they might need with finding a job, substance abuse etc.
Homelessness causes substance abuse, difficulties with holding down a job etc.
Ridiculous to expect to deal with a homeless persons other problems if you don't deal with what is for most the root cause.

That would be very difficult to implement here in the U.S. with the whole Calvinist work ethic thing.

See according to Calvinists a homeless person deserves their homelessness because lack of success in one's life is a sign that they are on the highway to Hell, believing in predestination and all that. Conversely a person who is generally successful and not downtrodden is believed to be someone destined for the pearly gates of Heaven. In other words God chooses before your even born whether you spend an eternity in the afterlife in Hell or Heaven, and thus either curses or blesses you retroactively while your still living based entirely on that inevitable final destination.

Therefore a Calvinist has no sympathy for the homeless, for the homeless have already been singled out by God as a child of Hell and an eternal irredeemable sinner. The Puritans who came over to the early American colonies were Calvinist in their beliefs of predestination. It is believed by many historians that this religious belief in particular is the origin of the American pull yourself up from the bootstraps mentality. Generally hard work is Godliness, laziness and being incapable is Satanicness.

 

[Lexicus]

I don’t know, but why would there be if communism has eliminated scarcity? It wouldn’t make sense for me to try and trade my onion for your carrot because I could just go to the warehouse and take my own carrot, no?

But you going to the warehouse to get a carrot is exchange, it just isn't commercial exchange.

As I was pointing out upthread, a good deal of everyday exchange occurs right now that is also not commercial. For most of human history, generally speaking if one wanted an item one did not offer to trade for it, tit for tat. Far more common would be to hint to one of the older women in the village that your feet were cold, and lo and behold she would give you some shoes. Or, rather than trading, you might praise the quality of your neighbor's yams in extravagant terms, upon which he would turn some of them over.

Really, the type of exchange where someone trades an onion for a carrot mostly occurred among people who would otherwise be killing each other (ie people from different social groupings or soldiers on opposite sides of a war), or people locked up in prison camps.

 

[Angst]

That would be very difficult to implement here in the U.S. with the whole Calvinist work ethic thing.

See according to Calvinists a homeless person deserves their homelessness because lack of success in one's life is a sign that they are on the highway to Hell, believing in predestination and all that. Conversely a person who is generally successful and not downtrodden is believed to be someone destined for the pearly gates of Heaven. In other words God chooses before your even born whether you spend an eternity in the afterlife in Hell or Heaven, and thus either curses or blesses you retroactively while your still living based entirely on that inevitable final destination.

Therefore a Calvinist has no sympathy for the homeless, for the homeless have already been singled out by God as a child of Hell and an eternal irredeemable sinner. The Puritans who came over to the early American colonies were Calvinist in their beliefs of predestination. It is believed by many historians that this religious belief in particular is the origin of the American pull yourself up from the bootstraps mentality. Generally hard work is Godliness, laziness and being incapable is Satanicness.

i've literally never read that the us were a calvinist denomination, if anything calvinist in ideology, even if a denomination. i'm well aware of the us "you're rich because you're blessed/you're poor because you're a lazy satanic idiot" dichotomy but that really isn't calvinism but this is probably just my moronic lack of historic understand probably

like, "you're poor because you're determined to be part of satan" isn't calvinism; "you're NOT GOING TO HEAVEN" because god has predestined you to not, *that*'s calvinism

 

[Zardnaar]

But you going to the warehouse to get a carrot is exchange, it just isn't commercial exchange.

As I was pointing out upthread, a good deal of everyday exchange occurs right now that is also not commercial. For most of human history, generally speaking if one wanted an item one did not offer to trade for it, tit for tat. Far more common would be to hint to one of the older women in the village that your feet were cold, and lo and behold she would give you some shoes. Or, rather than trading, you might praise the quality of your neighbor's yams in extravagant terms, upon which he would turn some of them over.

Really, the type of exchange where someone trades an onion for a carrot mostly occurred among people who would otherwise be killing each other (ie people from different social groupings or soldiers on opposite sides of a war), or people locked up in prison camps.

The flaw is under communism you wouldn't have the warehouse, carrot or an onion.

 

[amadeus]

But you going to the warehouse to get a carrot is exchange, it just isn't commercial exchange

It’s funny you phrase it that way because I was initially going to clarify it as commercial exchange, but changed my reply thinking that the addition would not solve the problem.

Since you offered it up here first I’ll say we’re not talking about two different things.

 

[Hygro]

That would be very difficult to implement here in the U.S. with the whole Calvinist work ethic thing.

See according to Calvinists a homeless person deserves their homelessness because lack of success in one's life is a sign that they are on the highway to Hell, believing in predestination and all that. Conversely a person who is generally successful and not downtrodden is believed to be someone destined for the pearly gates of Heaven. In other words God chooses before your even born whether you spend an eternity in the afterlife in Hell or Heaven, and thus either curses or blesses you retroactively while your still living based entirely on that inevitable final destination.

Therefore a Calvinist has no sympathy for the homeless, for the homeless have already been singled out by God as a child of Hell and an eternal irredeemable sinner. The Puritans who came over to the early American colonies were Calvinist in their beliefs of predestination. It is believed by many historians that this religious belief in particular is the origin of the American pull yourself up from the bootstraps mentality. Generally hard work is Godliness, laziness and being incapable is Satanicness.

No, but like, very yes.

 

[AmazonQueen]

That would be very difficult to implement here in the U.S. with the whole Calvinist work ethic thing.

See according to Calvinists a homeless person deserves their homelessness because lack of success in one's life is a sign that they are on the highway to Hell, believing in predestination and all that. Conversely a person who is generally successful and not downtrodden is believed to be someone destined for the pearly gates of Heaven. In other words God chooses before your even born whether you spend an eternity in the afterlife in Hell or Heaven, and thus either curses or blesses you retroactively while your still living based entirely on that inevitable final destination.

Therefore a Calvinist has no sympathy for the homeless, for the homeless have already been singled out by God as a child of Hell and an eternal irredeemable sinner. The Puritans who came over to the early American colonies were Calvinist in their beliefs of predestination. It is believed by many historians that this religious belief in particular is the origin of the American pull yourself up from the bootstraps mentality. Generally hard work is Godliness, laziness and being incapable is Satanicness.

i've literally never read that the us were a calvinist denomination, if anything calvinist in ideology, even if a denomination. i'm well aware of the us "you're rich because you're blessed/you're poor because you're a lazy satanic idiot" dichotomy but that really isn't calvinism but this is probably just my moronic lack of historic understand probably

like, "you're poor because you're determined to be part of satan" isn't calvinism; "you're NOT GOING TO HEAVEN" because god has predestined you to not, *that*'s calvinism

They aren't particularly.
The early settlers included Puritans but their descendants are a minority of US population.
As for Calvinism being the root of modern US viciousness towards the unfortunate in that case Scotland and Switzerland should be full of even more unpleasant mean spirited self-righteous idiots than the US. They aren't.

 

[red_elk]

That would be very difficult to implement here in the U.S. with the whole Calvinist work ethic thing.

See according to Calvinists a homeless person deserves their homelessness because lack of success in one's life is a sign that they are on the highway to Hell, believing in predestination and all that. Conversely a person who is generally successful and not downtrodden is believed to be someone destined for the pearly gates of Heaven. In other words God chooses before your even born whether you spend an eternity in the afterlife in Hell or Heaven, and thus either curses or blesses you retroactively while your still living based entirely on that inevitable final destination.

Therefore a Calvinist has no sympathy for the homeless, for the homeless have already been singled out by God as a child of Hell and an eternal irredeemable sinner. The Puritans who came over to the early American colonies were Calvinist in their beliefs of predestination. It is believed by many historians that this religious belief in particular is the origin of the American pull yourself up from the bootstraps mentality. Generally hard work is Godliness, laziness and being incapable is Satanicness.

By your description, this Calvinist work ethic thing seems to be crappy archaic prejudice, which should be abandoned as soon as possible.

 

[Gorbles]

The flaw is under communism you wouldn't have the warehouse, carrot or an onion.

The flaw is under capitalism, people don't often seem to either

 

[Zardnaar]

By your description, this Calvinist work ethic thing seems to be crappy archaic prejudice, which should be abandoned as soon as possible.

There used to be a watered down version of it.

Basically the cold protestant northern European work ethic was superior to the warm southern European Catholics.

 

[Zardnaar]

The flaw is under capitalism, people don't often seem to either

Starvation hasn't been a major problem in the west for centuries.

Famine was a thing in the Communists countries.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-59144712

Hmmn.