I still can't get over protective trait
- Thread starter Re/\/\eDy
- Start date
King Kalmah
Magyar Madness
so i guess thats a no,....god forbid anything gets an answer....
i hate protective....
i hate protective....
Jasonsligh
Chieftain
I still like all of the other traits better than PRO, but those examples with Churchill and Sitting Bull I gave were two times when I actually felt like there was something to it for a human player besides producing less defensive units for cities. Try a Churchill game, get some promos in a short early war, save cash before Rifling and then unload. It isn't THAT exciting. You could get Rifles and do something like this with any agg leader and/or combo of civics.
To the admins...OK, I won't open 5 year old threads again. I have been working so hard on my civ game. I guess I better get my forum game up to par as well.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
how to play protective:
1) use protective archers as bard defense and spend very little on it.
2) Aggressively settle cities (defended by your protective archers and cheap walls)
3) Espionage - build those cheap castles
4) take over the world with rifles.
1) use protective archers as bard defense and spend very little on it.
2) Aggressively settle cities (defended by your protective archers and cheap walls)
3) Espionage - build those cheap castles
4) take over the world with rifles.
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
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The necro to end all necros pfffffffffft bahahahahahahahah
On topic - I would laugh at the OP for banning "Asian" civs from his games due to the protective trait, but then who am I to judge, I play with such settings that the diplomatic victory condition is disabled...I think it's garbage
On topic - I would laugh at the OP for banning "Asian" civs from his games due to the protective trait, but then who am I to judge, I play with such settings that the diplomatic victory condition is disabled...I think it's garbage
Archon_Wing
Vote for me or die
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- 5,257
Normally I'd agree, but reviving a low quality whining thread really isn't gonna stimulate more discussion especially about PRO.
But anyhow, I suppose you can leverage protective by:
1.) place city near a potential enemy on a hill, and put your better archers and cheap walls in them
Optional: Something about Sitting Bull and Feudalism.
2.) watch as they suicide 643643634 units into it
3.) Enjoy your GG points
4.) Use your somewhat stronger gunpowder units to crap over him.
The AI's incredible stupidity in war can be used to goad them into making protective useful.
noto2
Emperor
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don't forget how much PRO rocks for China, I actually think China's UU is the best in the game. But anyway, yes PRO looks quite weak but let me tell you, if you play on high difficulty and/or aggressive AI the PRO trait isn't so bad. Sure, if I were always dominating my games it would be nearly useless, as I'd prefer any of the other warrior traits, but if I'm in a close game and I get DOW'ed by a powerful neighbour, the PRO trait can be just as useful as the other warfare traits in that situation, and possibly moreso. Yes you might get a few tiles pillaged but it can really save your cities and go a long way towards having favourable battle odds. If you have walls or a castle, and force the enemy stack to sit there bombarding it, you then have time to whip and send troops to the besieged city. The enemy stack then suicides against it, now the enemy army is destroyed and you have your own stack, then you can counterattack, or, keep it there so you don't have to be pillaged the next time.
The Wimp
Chieftain
I agree, not with the protective trait things, but the difficulty of capturing cities in general. It seems not worth it when you need to bring 2-3 the amount of units to capture the city. A smart Ai, on the harder difficulties will simply capture that city back with several units, as your weakened units can't stand a counterattack
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
So basically take a marginal (and delayed)
savings and a slightly stronger rifle.It's better than nothing, but not by a lot.
You do not need archers to be protective for barb defense, and you do not need cheap walls to aggressively settle cities...or to defend them. Even when walls are recommended (sites next to warmongers), you're mainly enjoying the "cheap" building in 1-2 cities on most map scripts. Even then, the aggregate
savings are pitiful; imperialistic torched it in terms of saved and it did it 2-8 cities ago. Not only did it torch it in hammer savings, but it did so sooner.And imperialistic is generally considered weak....
Akbarthegreat
Angel of Junil
A reason is because cuz the settler bonus comes only from hammers, not food.
If you sit in your cities and let the barbs pillage, there isn't much hope your economy will live.
AJ11
Emperor
For the human player, PRO is utter crap. Even the AI is smart enough to bring in a ton of siege to crap all over your defence bonuses before suiciding them ALL at you. Your archers suddenly becomes 0.1 strength units with Drill and CG.
Congrats! You can now hold off a worker!
Congrats! You can now hold off a worker!
Um the Muse
King
?? This is where Pro comes in handy. Are you aware that the Drill line gives your unit a ton of protection against siege collateral?
Pro is hardly broken, but give credit where credit is due.
Personally, I like Pro because I love units with Drill, but Drill 1 is so weak that I hate wasting a promo on it.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Protective is semi-useless in hands of the player (as on higher levels there is just too much siege to take care off). Um, you do realise that every promotion you 'waste' on drill means you lose one CG promotion? That can get troublesome, as your opponent will get the strength bonuses.
In hands of the AI, however, it's one of the best traits. It makes them less of a target in human eyes.
In hands of the AI, however, it's one of the best traits. It makes them less of a target in human eyes.
AJ11
Emperor
Yes. Up to 60%. I have, however, seen Drill IV, CG3 infantry, fortified on forested hills in a fort, lose to Saladin's bajillion trebs followed by a ton of camels and other assorted units.
An extra Drill and CG promotion is not going to help in any way, shape or form if you happen to be next to a warmonger (my version of Saladin has Monty's unit build and aggressiveness algorithm coupled with Izzy's religious hatred algorithm; I should have renamed him to someone else to be more historically correct (not naming the guy as I would probably be hit with a trolling infringement if I did), but since I am not publishing my modifications, I haven't bothered), especially on the standard level that I play.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
So basically take a marginal (and delayed)
It's better than nothing, but not by a lot.
You do not need archers to be protective for barb defense, and you do not need cheap walls to aggressively settle cities...or to defend them. Even when walls are recommended (sites next to warmongers), you're mainly enjoying the "cheap" building in 1-2 cities on most map scripts. Even then, the aggregate
And imperialistic is generally considered weak....
I didn't say it was good. Just talking about a way to play it.
I think that's the main problem with protective - there are no real early economic advantages to being protective. With aggressive, you can at least do rushes more effectively.
Everything else gets some early advantage.
I see the main problem in only archers getting bonuses early, if Shaka visits with loads of Swords and Impis i'd still prefer Axes over prot. archers, or Spears vs. Genghis Keshiks..
Archers cannot come out of cities for counter attacks, or stop plundering.
Also Archery is annoying to tech usually ~~
Both Agg. and Prot. are not well thought out, the bonuses for buildings are too small when compared to Forge/Ind, CH/LH/Org or exp workers who can save up to 5 turns for "worker first".
Archers cannot come out of cities for counter attacks, or stop plundering.
Also Archery is annoying to tech usually ~~
Both Agg. and Prot. are not well thought out, the bonuses for buildings are too small when compared to Forge/Ind, CH/LH/Org or exp workers who can save up to 5 turns for "worker first".
Jasonsligh
Chieftain
Does anyone know if the collateral damage reduction in the drill promotions stack?
In other words, does a Drill IV unit have 60% reduction (20% from Drill II, 20% from Drill III, and 20% from Drill IV) from collateral damage along with the +10% against mounted.
Edit: Ok I just read that it does.
Also, does anyone ever build castles for the +1 trade route? I almost never build walls and castles unless I am PRO or running heavy espionage. Walls and castles are pretty cheap though...is it worth the hammers for the trade route if you aren't paying PRO or running lots of spies?
In other words, does a Drill IV unit have 60% reduction (20% from Drill II, 20% from Drill III, and 20% from Drill IV) from collateral damage along with the +10% against mounted.
Edit: Ok I just read that it does.
Also, does anyone ever build castles for the +1 trade route? I almost never build walls and castles unless I am PRO or running heavy espionage. Walls and castles are pretty cheap though...is it worth the hammers for the trade route if you aren't paying PRO or running lots of spies?
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
No.
Castles are just too close to corporations, and when you have castles, there is something better to build.
The Trebuchet.
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