Idea/Project : Vox Populi 3rd and 4th Unique Components

[Jarula]

How about the warchief?

 

[Jarula]

or another good idea... a settler that has 1 production cost but causes the city to be raised and founds a new city with the same amount of tiles.

 

[Hinin]

Some things to say :
- I've read all your posts, and some ideas are interesting (although, as you know, my absence of skill as a programmer means that I'm limited in what I can accept for the UC) : I've never been really happy about the Polish UC, and the Voivode is too anectodic (I would like some ideas about this UGP please)
- As you noticed, the "updates" have stopped for now : it is simply because I have finals until mid-June. After that, I'll have several months with nearly nothing to do, so I'll be able to work on the mod-mod.
-After some time playing as France, I've come to the conclusion that the civ (to have a better "gameplay-flavour") should remain a middle-late game civ : because of this, I think I'll replace the Gendarme by an siege unit (I think the "Soixante-Quinze" could do the job well as a mobile anti-infantry replacement for the Artillery). Do you have other ideas for French UM (knowing that no new UM of the infantry branch will be used, since the Musketeer can already make the French infantry a powerhouse) ?

 

[Jarula]

The best bet if you want to replace voivode for ideas is crack open the mod Poland is love Poland is life.

Voi is always an idea. or a spearman replacement Slavic warrior
quick study, is not delayed by rough terrain, and gets a bonus while fighting in it.

 

[Taegi Kim]

Great project. But as a korean, i see a historical inaccuracy at the new korean constabulary Uigembu office. Although I really like the flavor and theme of it(Korea has synergy to GA and science, plus some faith from seowons.)
Uigembu(Department of the righteous banning) isn't a constabulary. It is a department of the central government. And it isn't even the national police headquater. That is Podocheong(Agency of Catching Bandits). Uigembu only dealt with treasons, crimes against/of the royal family, crimes against/of the foreigners, and extreme perversion of the neo-confusian ideals(such as murdering one's own family, intentionaly not serving ancestral rituals, believing christianity). So it is equivalent to modern day NSA or medival Europe's Inquisition. So restricting foreign religous units does fit, but it isn't everywhere.

Of course, not all UC's have to be historically accurate. Siam's watt isn't constabulary, neither is Egypt's royal tomb a caraversanary. But I think it would be better to rename it to Kwana(Buareucrat's office). This still isn't really constabulary, more like a local government office. But they did police work as well, so that would be more fitting.

If I was to design a new UB or UNW from scratch, I would pick Jongmyo or Sinmoongo. Which is probably the most badass Korean buildings to me.
Jongmyo, meaning Tribunal for the Firstborn, is a shrine worshiping dead kings of the Joseon dynasty. It is one of the most valueble historical landmarks in Korea. Making it an Unique Grand temple that transtions a percentage of faith into science, and gives bonuses when a great person is expended.
Sinmoongo, meaning ever hearing drum was hanged at the Gate of the Palace. Theoreticaly, any person could come and ring it, then king himself would come and hear their problem. It is regarded as a pinnacle of neo-confusianism and a national pride toward most Koreans(Although chinese did use it first for very short time). Minor versions of Sinmoongo was installed in Kwana, which could be used to call the local governor. Sinmoongo is a unique garden which could be built anywhere. It has extra culture and science. It gives you a free great person whenever your city's happiness goes to positive(triggers only once per cities).

What do you guys think about my suggestions?

Edit: my english could have some spelling and grammatical errors, so please be generous;;

 

[JungleBucks]

Minor versions of Sinmoongo was installed in Kwana, which could be used to call the local governor. Sinmoongo is a unique garden which could be built anywhere. It has extra culture and science. It gives you a free great person whenever your city's happiness goes to positive(triggers only once per cities).

What do you guys think about my suggestions?

Edit: my english could have some spelling and grammatical errors, so please be generous;;

I really like the idea, like, a lot, but a free Great Person would be absolutely broken if used intelligently. For example, say I have, 7 cities.

• If I have a religion and build them all at the same time, I now have 7 Great Prophets to stomp out any religion on my continent, and potentially most of the map.
• I could have 7 Great Engineers and rush several wonders at the same time.
• I could have 7 Great Scientist and gain 4 to 5 techs in a single turn.
• 7 Great Writers to rush a tree.
• 7 Great Diplomats to take most of the City-States

You get the idea. Even if it is once, the long term effects it can cause would be too strong. But free Great Person points would not be bad.

 

[Hinin]

Great project. But as a korean, i see a historical inaccuracy at the new korean constabulary Uigembu office. Although I really like the flavor and theme of it(Korea has synergy to GA and science, plus some faith from seowons.)
Uigembu(Department of the righteous banning) isn't a constabulary. It is a department of the central government. And it isn't even the national police headquater. That is Podocheong(Agency of Catching Bandits). Uigembu only dealt with treasons, crimes against/of the royal family, crimes against/of the foreigners, and extreme perversion of the neo-confusian ideals(such as murdering one's own family, intentionaly not serving ancestral rituals, believing christianity). So it is equivalent to modern day NSA or medival Europe's Inquisition. So restricting foreign religous units does fit, but it isn't everywhere.

Of course, not all UC's have to be historically accurate. Siam's watt isn't constabulary, neither is Egypt's royal tomb a caraversanary. But I think it would be better to rename it to Kwana(Buareucrat's office). This still isn't really constabulary, more like a local government office. But they did police work as well, so that would be more fitting.

If I was to design a new UB or UNW from scratch, I would pick Jongmyo or Sinmoongo. Which is probably the most badass Korean buildings to me.
Jongmyo, meaning Tribunal for the Firstborn, is a shrine worshiping dead kings of the Joseon dynasty. It is one of the most valueble historical landmarks in Korea. Making it an Unique Grand temple that transtions a percentage of faith into science, and gives bonuses when a great person is expended.
Sinmoongo, meaning ever hearing drum was hanged at the Gate of the Palace. Theoreticaly, any person could come and ring it, then king himself would come and hear their problem. It is regarded as a pinnacle of neo-confusianism and a national pride toward most Koreans(Although chinese did use it first for very short time). Minor versions of Sinmoongo was installed in Kwana, which could be used to call the local governor. Sinmoongo is a unique garden which could be built anywhere. It has extra culture and science. It gives you a free great person whenever your city's happiness goes to positive(triggers only once per cities).

What do you guys think about my suggestions?

Edit: my english could have some spelling and grammatical errors, so please be generous;;

Sorry for the historical inaccuracy : the primary idea was to make something around the concept of a Korean unique constabulary. When I did researches, I found the concept of an "extension" of the power of this "department of the righteous banning" interesting, since the goal of a constabulary as a building is too limit foreign influence in the city by slowing the spy rate : because of the "banning of anti-Confucianist values" aspect of this department, I also found that making the use of missionaries and GProphets in Korean territory very tedious for foreign powers could be an interesting idea.

However, it doesn't mean that I'm not open to suggestions (so thank you for suggesting ), and my lack of knowledge about Korean pre-modern history explain why I would happily accept any you could provide.

Thank you in advance !

 

[Kel A]

This one I just stole and altered from the America thread: UB: N.A.C.A. (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) Center: Replaces Research Lab.
EDIT: The research lab already has 1 Scientific Specialist slot, so I took the proposed +2, turned it to +1, and added a production bonus.
Adds: +6 production. +1 Scientist Specialist slot. +25 XP to all air units built in this city. Free spaceship factory after reaching the Information Era.
It's a bit of an odd choice seeing as America is culture first, science second, but having this plus the XP bonus for aircraft units would lead to a nice well rounded setup.

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but it doesn't seem like the best fit for America's UA and all those free buildings seem too strong...and it's not the most interesting historically speaking, but now I'm nit picking. (I also have a veeery slight bias towards the N.A.C.A. Center because it seemed neat when it was first proposed. )

HOLY S**T! Someone actually remembered my post on the N.A.C.A. Center! I usually just lurk around (out of the feelings of deep personal shame I have for never getting a proper mod up and running (life got complicated)) but I had to log in to note this. America is one of THE space exploration civs of our world (along with Russia, but I'll give them a pass since they have a scientific UA), they deserve a space oriented UB and the N.A.C.A. Center would be PERFECT!

 

[Taegi Kim]

Sorry for the historical inaccuracy : the primary idea was to make something around the concept of a Korean unique constabulary. When I did researches, I found the concept of an "extension" of the power of this "department of the righteous banning" interesting, since the goal of a constabulary as a building is too limit foreign influence in the city by slowing the spy rate : because of the "banning of anti-Confucianist values" aspect of this department, I also found that making the use of missionaries and GProphets in Korean territory very tedious for foreign powers could be an interesting idea.

However, it doesn't mean that I'm not open to suggestions (so thank you for suggesting ), and my lack of knowledge about Korean pre-modern history explain why I would happily accept any you could provide.

Thank you in advance !

Thanks.

I really like the idea, like, a lot, but a free Great Person would be absolutely broken if used intelligently. For example, say I have, 7 cities.

• If I have a religion and build them all at the same time, I now have 7 Great Prophets to stomp out any religion on my continent, and potentially most of the map.
• I could have 7 Great Engineers and rush several wonders at the same time.
• I could have 7 Great Scientist and gain 4 to 5 techs in a single turn.
• 7 Great Writers to rush a tree.
• 7 Great Diplomats to take most of the City-States

You get the idea. Even if it is once, the long term effects it can cause would be too strong. But free Great Person points would not be bad.

That is true. Perhaps the Maya like "cannot select same great person" would balance it out?
Original idea of Sinmoongo was to give give a small amount of every great person point(except general and admiral) each time your city's happiness would go to positive(has no limit), but I feared this would encourage a playstyle which dropping your cities happiness intentionaly low to get great person points.

 

[Taegi Kim]

And this is my suggestion to the 3rd and 4th Unique Components generally. I know many of these UCs were inspired by other modmakers, but I think these changes would benefit the project.
1. I believe the main thing I liked about the CPP was that it promoted every Civilizations uniqueness and identity. Japan focused on anti-cultural victory and experience points, Iroquoies on Forests, Byzantine and Spain on different aspects of religon and so. But I think some of the UCs that was included seemed random. Of course, you could say sticking to one's identity makes a civ's playstyle too fixed, but we already have 43 civs. It is okay to have civs focused on one thing because isn't it the point of having different civs?
The problematic UCs(according to my personal opinion) are
Trailblazer: Some people mentioned the anti-synergy. I suggest adding "claming tiles by the effect of trailblazer count as buying them".
Standschutzen: Austria isn't really a war focused civ, and her germanic brother germany got another unique military academy. Some muscians guild replacement(don't know the exact name, but I'm sure Austrians have some sort of awesome music academy) to synergize with coffee shop and diplomatic marrage sounds like a nice idea to me.
Hippodrome: I agree that it is fitting, but where is the faiths? Fans of the Hippodrome chariot race(Demes) weren's just fans. They were divided by different social, political and religous background(Blue demes supported the orthodox theology, Green demes supported monophysitism, which lead to Nika riots). So adding removing +20% culture and adding +20% faith would be more fitting.
Siku Quanshu: China's focus is now WLTED, not great person. Giving +5% great person rate per cities that are in WLTED seems like a good fix.
Grand Ecole: I know Grand Ecole, the first modern education system that still contains the best colleges in Europe, is the pride of the France. But CPP france is more culture and war(and GW stealing) and less science. How about changing all science related stuff into culture? Grand Ecole did produce best scientists of France, but it is still a general university.
Mugal Fort: This is the UB from the original civ, but I think adding faith and food instead of culture and tourism is more fitting.
Wayang: Only a minor change. Removing culture and gold from guilds and adding another spices match the identity of Indonesia.
Daimyo: Japan is a exp focused civ. "In capital city, can provide 15xp to all units once." sound nice.
Menara Gardens: I really want some desert stuff back at the Morocco. Can you give some "+1 food, production and culture at non flood tile desert plains with no resources" instead of montain and natural wonders?
University of Coimbra: It is the oldest university in Europe, which is cool. But portugal is a naval civ. I think prince henry the navigator built a naval academy or so. Navigator Academy: Unique Oxford University with effect "Give all your naval units naviagator traning(reconnaisance+50% exp), When your naval units gain experience, gain science equal to 5 times(scales with era) of that experience."
Harpago: I know Rome and Carthage were epic rivals, but now they both have a ancient era trireme replacement and a ground army(Leigon and Numidian Cavarly) UU with focus on GG and GA(Colosseum, Sophet). Just giving back the ballista seems nice.
Jalla: Identity of Songhai is river and war. And Jalla seems like american or russian unique GM. My changes-Jalla: +200% yield when conducting trade missions with CS which you threaten. When you build a town, all adjacent river tiles gain +3 gold.
Ch'uru: Inca is a mountain civ with enough focus on the early warfare, I suggests something entirely new that fits this theme. Waru-waru: Unique granary. All your mountain's edges count as rivers on purpose of declaring river adjacent tiles and cities.
Sachmes Council: Again, Iroquois is the "Forest" civ. Adding 'Plant Trees' UI instead of Sachmes Council is more fiiting to me.
Sublime Porte/ Babiali: Ottomans isn't what you call a great person civ. How about Turkish Bath: Unique Bath, gain bonus production and gold when a trade route is originating from this city, gain bonus food and culture when a trade route is heading towards this city.

2. I think there are too many UUs that gives X(Science, Faith, Golden age points, et cetra) when it kills a unit. Some which I don't see any points either historically and gameplay-wise. Why do monitor class give science? I think more fitting versions of it would be "gain combat bonus when battling units that is behind the tech/or when battling units that is from civilization with less technology" since it was main source of imperialistic 'gunship diplomacy'.

3. There are too many UNWs that give free Great Work slots, some of the civilization which got it(Babylon, China, Ethiopia, Portugal, Aztec, Ottomans) had no synergy towards great persons or great works whatsoever! More fitting option would be some thing that fits the civilizations. I suggested Portugal and Ottomans alternative UIs. I'm fine with other civs(Babylon, Ethiopia, Aztec) basic concept, but I still want to remove the slots and fill it with something more thematic.

 

[JungleBucks]

Trailblazer: Some people mentioned the anti-synergy. I suggest adding "claming tiles by the effect of trailblazer count as buying them".
Standschutzen: Austria isn't really a war focused civ, and her germanic brother germany got another unique military academy. Some muscians guild replacement(don't know the exact name, but I'm sure Austrians have some sort of awesome music academy) to synergize with coffee shop and diplomatic marrage sounds like a nice idea to me.

I don't think that would solve anything. Based on the description, you gain those tiles the moment you settle the city, and since you can't cue a building for a city that doesn't exist, the production bonus from "buying" those tiles would go nowhere. Honestly, I don't think I can really suggest any simple changes as the key aspects of the UU (the buildings and free tiles) invalidate the UA. Maybe settled cities gain additional gold to fuel the UA (Or maybe we get a super cool space-race UB to replace it ).

Menara Gardens: I really want some desert stuff back at the Morocco. Can you give some "+1 food, production and culture at non flood tile desert plains with no resources" instead of montain and natural wonders?

I HATE those useless dessert tiles that clog up cities, so I would be all up for this one. (Now if we just had something for those cruddy snow tiles, we'll be golden, but there aren't any arctic civs, so I'm not holding my breath.)

Ch'uru: Inca is a mountain civ with enough focus on the early warfare, I suggests something entirely new that fits this theme. Waru-waru: Unique granary. All your mountain's edges count as rivers on purpose of declaring river adjacent tiles and cities.

This may be difficult to code (or at least, it sounds like it may be difficult. I think a simpler idea would be allowing cities with mountains to be able to gain additional food so long as they own a river, lake, or ocean tile. A simple definition may be: Mountains yield +1 while your city has a source of water. +2 for cities connected to rivers.

 

[Taegi Kim]

I don't think that would solve anything. Based on the description, you gain those tiles the moment you settle the city, and since you can't cue a building for a city that doesn't exist, the production bonus from "buying" those tiles would go nowhere. Honestly, I don't think I can really suggest any simple changes as the key aspects of the UU (the buildings and free tiles) invalidate the UA. Maybe settled cities gain additional gold to fuel the UA (Or maybe we get a super cool space-race UB to replace it ).

Well, production bonus goes to the city. If you settle a city in a forest tile, you can see 50 production adding up to the next building you build.

This may be difficult to code (or at least, it sounds like it may be difficult. I think a simpler idea would be allowing cities with mountains to be able to gain additional food so long as they own a river, lake, or ocean tile. A simple definition may be: Mountains yield +1 while your city has a source of water. +2 for cities connected to rivers.

Makes sense. How much percentage of mountains come with a lake or river at civ 5? We'll need some coders to figure this out.

 

[JungleBucks]

Well, production bonus goes to the city. If you settle a city in a forest tile, you can see 50 production adding up to the next building you build.

But that doesn't really fix anything. You're not making the UA relevant, you're just giving an (and my word is not the law when I say this, testing hasn't even happened yet) arguably overpowered UC essentially free production that scales with era. I understand what you mean when you say the production is because you "bought" those tiles, but you didn't actually "buy" anything. It's not coming out of your own wallet, you're not working towards obtaining it, you're just getting it by virtue of settling a new city, and while that's powerful, that sounds a little hollow in it's rewards.

 

[Taegi Kim]

But that doesn't really fix anything. You're not making the UA relevant, you're just giving an (and my word is not the law when I say this, testing hasn't even happened yet) arguably overpowered UC essentially free production that scales with era. I understand what you mean when you say the production is because you "bought" those tiles, but you didn't actually "buy" anything. It's not coming out of your own wallet, you're not working towards obtaining it, you're just getting it by virtue of settling a new city, and while that's powerful, that sounds a little hollow in it's rewards.

That is true. I see your point now. So what should we replace it with?
I thought of 2 alternative UCs for America.
UI: Great Frontier. Available at Military Theory. Can be only built on the border tiles of your city. +2/+1. Adjacent tile(even tiles of other civs) cost is decreased by additional -10%(Stacks with UA and itself).
UB: Movie studio(Unique broadcast tower). +5/+1. Your tourism to other civilization increases +5% per each technology you are ahead of.
or UB: N.A.C.A station that the Kel A made.
Yeah, I kinda associate America with "having more technology then other civs". But to me, America's true strength is the soft power made by advanced technologies, which is enabled by a massive economy.

 

[JungleBucks]

That is true. I see your point now. So what should we replace it with?
I thought of 2 alternative UCs for America.
UI: Great Frontier. Available at Military Theory. Can be only built on the border tiles of your city. +2/+1. Adjacent tile(even tiles of other civs) cost is decreased by additional -10%(Stacks with UA and itself).
UB: Movie studio(Unique broadcast tower). +5/+1. Your tourism to other civilization increases +5% per each technology you are ahead of.
or UB: N.A.C.A station that the Kel A made.
Yeah, I kinda associate America with "having more technology then other civs". But to me, America's is enabled by a massive economy.

Interesting ideas, but what would the great frontier be as a physical construct? After all, the great frontier was more a concept than anything. Also the broadcast tower get their tourism bonuses from songs so how exactly would a movie studio's theming bonus work?

 

[Taegi Kim]

Interesting ideas, but what would the great frontier be as a physical construct? After all, the great frontier was more a concept than anything.

Well, naming is inaccurate. How about Frontier Settlements? Some small wood towns or camps?(Of course, I'm not in a position of saying since I'm not the one who is doing graphics)

Also the broadcast tower get their tourism bonuses from songs so how exactly would a movie studio's theming bonus work?

Oh, right, they should have some unique theme bonuses. I really haven't thought about it. Any ideas?

 

[Jarula]

Actually if I was going to change things on here.
America replace moniter with Frontier town
basically like a latifundium improvement yields either +1 gold or culture to all adjacent and grants normal yields of +1 F +1 C +1 P +1 G goes up at economics +1 C +1 G goes up at industrialization to +1 C +1 G this represents the way frontier settlements in the US are actually super young comparibly historically in Europe NOBODY EVER would make a big deal out of a settlement from 1700 or 1800 but in the US we make a hell of a big deal about them. this encourages players to actively maintain these frontier towns
Rome
basically replace latifundium with something like curia
Curia replaces shrine
grants +5 culture +5 faith scaling with era whenever a building is constructed in city Curia were HUGE in ancient rome
A curia, plural curiae, is an assembly, council, or court, in which public, official, or religious issues are discussed and decided. In ancient Rome, the populace was divided into 30 curiae, which met in order to confirm the election of magistrates, witness the installation of priests, the making of wills, and adoptions. Lesser curiae existed for other purposes. The word curia also came to denote the places of assembly, especially the senate. Similar institutions existed in other towns and cities of Italy. In medieval times, a king's council was often referred to as a curia. Today, the most famous curia is the Curia of the Roman Catholic Church which assists the Roman Pontiff in the hierarchical government of the Church
Wikipedia
Honestly I think at least this building is a MUST HAVE for Rome. Rome are known as the greatest building empire to ever live. Even today their buildings are ACTUALLY USED TODAY... Rome was also a very Religion centered Empire as well Rome even though in this game it almost never does really should be founding a religion. this added buff for building up would be crucial in building an empire for Rome and helping it expand.
Poland
Replace barbican with the one I recommended replacing constabulary that grants culture and gold whenever a policy is adopted

 

[JungleBucks]

Actually if I was going to change things on here.
America replace moniter with Frontier town
basically like a latifundium improvement yields either +1 gold or culture to all adjacent and grants normal yields of +1 F +1 C +1 P +1 G goes up at economics +1 C +1 G goes up at industrialization to +1 C +1 G this represents the way frontier settlements in the US are actually super young comparibly historically in Europe NOBODY EVER would make a big deal out of a settlement from 1700 or 1800 but in the US we make a hell of a big deal about them. this encourages players to actively maintain these frontiers

What's wrong with the monitor? Also if you want to go for a frontier theme instead of a space race theme for America, I can accept that. That's perfectly fine, but I think the idea of a trailblazer plus the frontier town is a little bit redundant, as these are both Wild West centered concepts, and there are plenty of other periods to draw another unique from, like the industrial revolution, or both world wars, or the space race. ( I'd hate to feel like I'm dictating what should happen but I am I'm just giving my opinions, and will respect your decisions either way.)

EDIT: Here's an idea. How about combining the concepts? The trailblazer can settle frontier towns in a similar fashion to a Great Merchant, and when they make cities state deals they gain population in the capital as a nod to Americas eventual melting pot status. That would then free up a unique for something new.

 

[Jarula]

Well wasn't that what America was about. Only in the late 1800s did America actually change into a real global power through westward expansion, another option is the white house as a unique wonder
Can only be built in capital allows for an immediate adoption of an ideology and put it relatively early.
Replaces Printing press

But my big thing lol is I'm SUPER pushing for Curia lol. Rome needs it. I know Hinin likes his Latisfundia but

 

[JungleBucks]

Well wasn't that what America was about. Only in the late 1800s did America actually change into a real global power through westward expansion, another option is the white house as a unique wonder
Can only be built in capital allows for an immediate adoption of an ideology and put it relatively early.

The White House is no more special than any other building that somebody in power lives in so I would vote against it. Also yes America was known for settlements and expansion and the Wild West in the past, but you know what else they were known for? GETTING A MAN ON THE GOSH DANG MOON!

I can't help pushing something like that because that's SO COOL and space exploration is SO COOL, but once again, I will accept most any decision that you make so long as it's balanced in the long run.