Good luck with your finals, and good luck with the election.Being a law student, I have some finals approaching (+ the French presidential elections tomorrow and the fact that I'll help counting the ballots), and so the update frequency will drop a little in the next days. All you say is well said : a majority of what you see now is only some sketchy ideas, and a lot of things will have to change before the "coding phase" can begin.
Thank you for all the constructive argumentation.
Idea/Project : Vox Populi 3rd and 4th Unique Components
- Thread starter Hinin
- Start date
HorseshoeHermit
20% accurate as usual, Morty
My vote is closest to option 2, only it's not about balance. It's about VP being in the final stretch of it's implementation. Do I want to see a 4 uniques mod in BNW? Yes. But VP is feature-frozen.
VP feature-frozen
? I've never been prideful to the point of saying that this mod-mod should be considered an actual part of VP (it will only be used by those who want to use it, and I have no intention of asking Gazebo to make it a part of the package), but saying that a mod is "feature-frozen" is a little much, don't you think (it seems to me that the terms "mod" and "feature-frozen" are antithetic) ? If it makes you feel better, simply say to yourself that "it is not VP".
And, that aside, what will you do if Gazebo adds a new feature to VP (because s/he is inspired to do so) ? You'll reject the new versions of the mod as "not VP" ?
Sorry if I have been offensive to you, but your affirmation is quite alien to my comprehension...
Here is a list of the UCs which will be modified (with an indication of how much each will be) in the next days :
- Carthaginian UGP Sophet (light changes)
- Chinese UI Feng Hou (replaced)
- Ethiopian UU Tekula (light modifications)
- French UU Gendarme (heavy modifications)
- French UB Grande Ecole (light changes)
- Greek UGP Strategos (light modifications)
- Japanese UGP Daimyo (heavy modifications)
- Korean UB Saheonbu office (heavy modifications)
- Both Polish UCs (some modifications)
- Polynesian UB Fale Tele (heavy modifications)
- Russian UGP Boyar (replaced)
- Spanish UCivilian Encomenderos (heavy modifications)
- Aztec UGP Tlatoani (heavy modifications)
- Celtic UI Oppidum (heavy modifications)
- Both Hunnic UCs (replaced)
- Both Iroquois UCs (light modifications)
- Ottoman UB Sublime Porte (replaced)
- Both Shoshone UCs (light modifications)
- Zulu UGP Induna (heavy modifications)
- Both Venetian UCs (heavy modifications)
- Carthaginian UGP Sophet (light changes)
- Chinese UI Feng Hou (replaced)
- Ethiopian UU Tekula (light modifications)
- French UU Gendarme (heavy modifications)
- French UB Grande Ecole (light changes)
- Greek UGP Strategos (light modifications)
- Japanese UGP Daimyo (heavy modifications)
- Korean UB Saheonbu office (heavy modifications)
- Both Polish UCs (some modifications)
- Polynesian UB Fale Tele (heavy modifications)
- Russian UGP Boyar (replaced)
- Spanish UCivilian Encomenderos (heavy modifications)
- Aztec UGP Tlatoani (heavy modifications)
- Celtic UI Oppidum (heavy modifications)
- Both Hunnic UCs (replaced)
- Both Iroquois UCs (light modifications)
- Ottoman UB Sublime Porte (replaced)
- Both Shoshone UCs (light modifications)
- Zulu UGP Induna (heavy modifications)
- Both Venetian UCs (heavy modifications)
All the civilizations have been completed, so here are some numbers.
With this mod-mod :
- America will have 2 UM, 1 UC and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 2 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Arabia will have 1 UM, 1 UC (separated in two), 1 UB and 1 UW (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- Assyria will have 1 UM, 1 UC, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 3 Classical era)
- Austria will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Renaissance era, 3 Industrial era)
- Babylon will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era)
- Brazil will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (1 Ancient era, 1 Renaissance era, 2 Modern era)
- Byzantium will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (3 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- Carthage will have 2 UM, 1 UW and 1 UGP (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era)
- China will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Classical era, 2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Denmark will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Classical era, 3 Medieval era)
- Egypt will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 3 Classical era)
- England will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Ethiopia will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 2 Medieval era, 1 Industrial era)
- France will have 2 UM and 2 UB (2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Germany will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era, 1 Modern era)
- Greece will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (3 Ancient era, 1 Classical era)
- India will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 1 Classical era, 1 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Indonesia will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 3 Classical era)
- Japan will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (1 Ancient era, 3 Medieval era)
- Korea will have 2 UM and 2 UB (3 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Mongolia will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (2 Ancient era, 1 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- Morocco will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Persia will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 2 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- Poland will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (1 Ancient era, 2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Polynesia will have 2 UM and 2 UB (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era)
- Portugal will have 2 UM, 1 UW and 1 UI (3 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Rome will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (4 Classical era)
- Russia will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Medieval era, 2 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Siam will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Classical era, 1 Medieval era, 2 Renaissance era)
- Songhai will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (3 Ancient era, 1 Medieval era)
- Spain will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UC (3 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Sweden will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Classical era, 2 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- The Aztecs will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (3 Ancient era, 1 Classical era)
- The Celts will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (1 Ancient era, 2 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- The Huns will have 1 UM, 1 UB, 1 UC and 1 UI (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era)
- The Incas will have 2 UM, 1 UC and 1 UI (3 Ancient era, 1 Classical era)
- The Iroquois will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 2 Classical era, 1 Renaissance era)
- The Mayas will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 3 Classical era)
- The Netherlands will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (3 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- The Ottomans will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (2 Classical era, 2 Renaissance era)
- The Shoshones will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (3 Ancient era, 1 Industrial era)
- The Zulus will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (2 Ancient era, 1 Classical era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Venice will have 1 UM, 1 UB, 1 UGP and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 1 Classical era, 2 Medieval era)
With this mod-mod :
- America will have 2 UM, 1 UC and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 2 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Arabia will have 1 UM, 1 UC (separated in two), 1 UB and 1 UW (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- Assyria will have 1 UM, 1 UC, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 3 Classical era)
- Austria will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Renaissance era, 3 Industrial era)
- Babylon will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era)
- Brazil will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (1 Ancient era, 1 Renaissance era, 2 Modern era)
- Byzantium will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (3 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- Carthage will have 2 UM, 1 UW and 1 UGP (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era)
- China will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Classical era, 2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Denmark will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Classical era, 3 Medieval era)
- Egypt will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 3 Classical era)
- England will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Ethiopia will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 2 Medieval era, 1 Industrial era)
- France will have 2 UM and 2 UB (2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Germany will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era, 1 Modern era)
- Greece will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (3 Ancient era, 1 Classical era)
- India will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 1 Classical era, 1 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Indonesia will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 3 Classical era)
- Japan will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (1 Ancient era, 3 Medieval era)
- Korea will have 2 UM and 2 UB (3 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Mongolia will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (2 Ancient era, 1 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- Morocco will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Persia will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 2 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- Poland will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (1 Ancient era, 2 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Polynesia will have 2 UM and 2 UB (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era)
- Portugal will have 2 UM, 1 UW and 1 UI (3 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Rome will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (4 Classical era)
- Russia will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Medieval era, 2 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- Siam will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Classical era, 1 Medieval era, 2 Renaissance era)
- Songhai will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (3 Ancient era, 1 Medieval era)
- Spain will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UC (3 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Sweden will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Classical era, 2 Renaissance era, 1 Industrial era)
- The Aztecs will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (3 Ancient era, 1 Classical era)
- The Celts will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (1 Ancient era, 2 Classical era, 1 Medieval era)
- The Huns will have 1 UM, 1 UB, 1 UC and 1 UI (2 Ancient era, 2 Classical era)
- The Incas will have 2 UM, 1 UC and 1 UI (3 Ancient era, 1 Classical era)
- The Iroquois will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 2 Classical era, 1 Renaissance era)
- The Mayas will have 2 UM and 2 UB (1 Ancient era, 3 Classical era)
- The Netherlands will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (3 Medieval era, 1 Renaissance era)
- The Ottomans will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UW (2 Classical era, 2 Renaissance era)
- The Shoshones will have 2 UM, 1 UB and 1 UI (3 Ancient era, 1 Industrial era)
- The Zulus will have 1 UM, 2 UB and 1 UGP (2 Ancient era, 1 Classical era, 1 Renaissance era)
- Venice will have 1 UM, 1 UB, 1 UGP and 1 UW (1 Ancient era, 1 Classical era, 2 Medieval era)
Pity Was really looking for a roman Culture factory.Like an amphitheater replacement that has Great writer specialists. Rome had more works of philosophy etc... than anywhere else in the ancient world Rather than another UM getting outclassed in social policies by the Zulu (who yeah they had great military strategems against the Brits but that was hundreds of years later if anything Rome should be policy leader (yeah the conquest keeping buildings help but they should really be Racking up the policies.)
And by the way Great to hear about ya'lls election and you did an amazing job with the whole thing.
I perfectly understand, but there are several problems putting a unique cultural building for Rome :
- Rome, through its already existing UB, can have more golden ages than most civs (and that means +20 % culture on multiple occasions). Plus, this UB already gives +3 culture in addition to its +3 production, which is quite a lot in the early game.
- Rome lacks a second UM, since its UA rewards conquest, but doesn't help it in any way, and a UI to exploit the territory its UA offers (aside from all the forts and citadels) and so give conquered lands more economic value.
- The main "building" fitting for this kind of theme is the Forum, which is already used as a World wonder unfortunately.
Things aren't totally determined for the UCs, so changes could happen, but I think I'll keep the UM/UI addition.
I won't talk about politics on this forum : the only thing I will say is that I hope Macron will make an interesting leader for future mods.
FoxOfWar
Prince
Well, if we deem the writeup complete for now, the only logical thing to do, thusly, is poke it full o' holes. Let us have a gander, as it were.
(Only mentioning things I haven't before - or think I haven't, anyway.)
Arabia: Dar al-Hikmah seems weak at first glance, however Arabia needs zero help with GP or historic events in general. So it's probably good (if anything, nerf the GP and add more raw science/culture).
Assyria: King's Wall (yup, really does need a better name) feels like it needs slightly more 'oomph'; maybe less culture and more yields on great works?
Greece: I rather like what Strategos does now; being instantly able to expend it for some instant unhappiness removal on city capture is powerful and flavorful.
India: I rather like Dhanuraashi's potential, actual gameplay will see if it's too much (fragile unit that gets better the longer you keep it around has certain human advantage to it).
The Huns: Zovlol is fine, though I'll note that Council already has no maintenance. Battering Ram as a different take on the Assyrian tower... hmm. Guess I'll file this under 'we'll see in practice'. I like the idea of it though: strenghtening a melee unit enough for it to take the city.
The Incas: Not sure why Chasqui would need to never become obsolete; by the time you could upgrade it, you probably want to, anyway (assuming you even have anything left to explore, depending on map style and size - especially with a +2 sight scout). Most games when you get to railroad, your workers are pretty much out of other things to do anyway, so that bonus might as well not be there.
The Netherlands: does Goedendag also have the basic Pikeman bonus against mounted? If so, it might as well just have higher combat power instead of those two promotions. (If it doesn't have said bonus, nevermind.)
The Zulus: Okay, this variation of Great General I buy. A very good alternative use for those (inevitable) extra GG's you get.
...so in the end, I think most of these are starting to grow on me. Hehe.
Obviously actual gameplay testing will show a billion-and-half flaws, but for now, seems fairly good already.
(Only mentioning things I haven't before - or think I haven't, anyway.)
Arabia: Dar al-Hikmah seems weak at first glance, however Arabia needs zero help with GP or historic events in general. So it's probably good (if anything, nerf the GP and add more raw science/culture).
Assyria: King's Wall (yup, really does need a better name) feels like it needs slightly more 'oomph'; maybe less culture and more yields on great works?
Greece: I rather like what Strategos does now; being instantly able to expend it for some instant unhappiness removal on city capture is powerful and flavorful.
India: I rather like Dhanuraashi's potential, actual gameplay will see if it's too much (fragile unit that gets better the longer you keep it around has certain human advantage to it).
The Huns: Zovlol is fine, though I'll note that Council already has no maintenance. Battering Ram as a different take on the Assyrian tower... hmm. Guess I'll file this under 'we'll see in practice'. I like the idea of it though: strenghtening a melee unit enough for it to take the city.
The Incas: Not sure why Chasqui would need to never become obsolete; by the time you could upgrade it, you probably want to, anyway (assuming you even have anything left to explore, depending on map style and size - especially with a +2 sight scout). Most games when you get to railroad, your workers are pretty much out of other things to do anyway, so that bonus might as well not be there.
The Netherlands: does Goedendag also have the basic Pikeman bonus against mounted? If so, it might as well just have higher combat power instead of those two promotions. (If it doesn't have said bonus, nevermind.)
The Zulus: Okay, this variation of Great General I buy. A very good alternative use for those (inevitable) extra GG's you get.
...so in the end, I think most of these are starting to grow on me. Hehe.
Obviously actual gameplay testing will show a billion-and-half flaws, but for now, seems fairly good already.
De_Genius
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2016
- Messages
- 156
A minor comment: From a Danish perspective a Thing sounds very awkward and slightly confusing. Since a lot of the other units, buildings and stuff is named in its original language, you could call it a Ting, since that is the Danish word and for Danes it makes more sense to read along with most other Nordic people.
Your contribution is very welcome. I'll modify the name immediately.
PS : What is the Danish name for the Longship ?
Yes, but for minor modifications which don't create comprehension problems, I think we can do some exceptions.
Just looked at things you're giving Zulus +8 culture at Drama and poetry. That's kinda huh. Man I'll proly just manually change Latifundium to provide more culture, either that or make something for Rome Perhaps Villa to replace Granary or Curia for Shrine. +3 +3 that's only a +2 culture on a Arena. I completely get what your saying with everything based on conquest but the Legions are already WAY good enough for that.
I know I typically like to play with Civ 4 traits meaning Rome gets the Imperialistic and production bonus but without that Rome is already pretty aggressive as an AI. A second UM doesn't mean all that much.
I guess if I want to change things I ought to do it myself but that's besides the point.
Oh and sorry about the politics thing (I know Macron is nothing too exciting its just stopping a French Trumpler is always a good thing).
I know I typically like to play with Civ 4 traits meaning Rome gets the Imperialistic and production bonus but without that Rome is already pretty aggressive as an AI. A second UM doesn't mean all that much.
I guess if I want to change things I ought to do it myself but that's besides the point.
Oh and sorry about the politics thing (I know Macron is nothing too exciting its just stopping a French Trumpler is always a good thing).
Tests will tell if this UM is too much. If that's the case, I'll add a UB instead.
Once again, I don't want to express political opinions on this forum. Privacy has its price.
I've added a list of the people I'll try to contact in order to obtain valuable elements to speed up the construction of the mod. It is at the third post of the thread.
Consistency. But you do what you want.Yes, but for minor modifications which don't create comprehension problems, I think we can do some exceptions.
This is also why I used Stavkirk instead of Stave church. I prefer using untranslated names when it is possible (for example, I don't have access to Iroquois words, so I only use English words instead), but, for some components, the translated name is so famous that taking it away would simply be giving myself airs (this is why, at the end, I chose to make the Great Galeass come back).
Meant consistency with the rest of the mod.
