Ideas and Development--Story NES

[Swissempire]

I see four nations that have sufficient population density and technological capabilities to be medium powers...

And then there are 21 OTHER nations.... I mean, I thought there were literally going to be 5 nations.... Because IMSDHOWMALLTYOD, 25 nations could theoretically take down Empire.

 

[North King]

And then there are 21 OTHER nations.... I mean, I thought there were literally going to be 5 nations.... Because IMSDHOWMALLTYOD, 25 nations could theoretically take down Empire.

Nah... The economic imbalance plus the allies of the Empire makes them invulnerable.

I'll admit that the idea morphed somewhat along the way, but only because the original framework didn't make sense in some places.

 

[TerrisH]

Combined with Distrust of Each other. Can't forget Distrust, which the the Empier Encorages Between the Various nations.

 

[silver 2039]

Some of the holdings seem odd. Espiacally that Siberia thing.

 

[das]

Minerals, timber, and strategic possession--yes, it does require more forces to defend then might be prudent, but it also provides the perfect base for destroying the tan empire.

Not at all, it is good for sucking up resources only, while the tan empire can always be destroyed by a good old seaborne invasion. Some bases and a puppet state is probably as far as the empire will go there.

Nein. The monopoly on intercontinental trade was what made the Empire the Empire.

Before any such monopoly could be attained, the Empire needed SECURITY, and security demands that all of the Gulf is under direct Imperial rule.

Not at all. It is the difference between the Arabs and Australia.

Neither Arabia nor Australia have so many big rivers, so its the difference between Egypt... and Egypt. And Egypt is quite easy to conquer.

The Eastern Continent, though it is less civilized than the Mainland, is still very much a part of the Empire.

Not at all. It is useless for the Empire.

Ease of conquest, as I have said, I don't agree with. The Empire will be discovering them in their Medieval age anyway, and said contact will mean they are not the backward primitives of those south of the jungles.

Backwardness doesn't matter. Logistics matter. Tenability matters. The desert is much easier to conquer and hold, and has much more immediate profit. Furthermore, the Empire will discover it first anyway.

No. Again we have the analogy of Canada: fairly open, fairly rich land, ripe for the taking.

Canada was taken due to fur trade and colonial competition with France, NK. The Eastern Continent is not like Canada at all. It is unlikely to be completely conquered by the Empire. It is chiefly maritime anyway, and has no need of such huge overland holdings. Instead, it shall seek to take over the coasts, and the rivers, especially closer to home.

And they are not at all hard to hold on to, when the Empire has supreme naval superiority, and ability to ship their troops south.

That might be the situation right now, but back then, it was simply too far away. The Empire has better things to do than actually explore all the way to the south. By the time it will get there, advanced civilizations shall emerge there anyway. It shall be much more profitable for the Empire to trade with them than to conquer them at that point.

 

[North King]

Not at all, it is good for sucking up resources only, while the tan empire can always be destroyed by a good old seaborne invasion. Some bases and a puppet state is probably as far as the empire will go there.

Good for sucking up resources only? You have an entirely negative view of your own lands, then, das. There's plenty to be had in Siberia.

Before any such monopoly could be attained, the Empire needed SECURITY, and security demands that all of the Gulf is under direct Imperial rule.

No. The monopoly comes from their complete seaborne supremacy, which means they, yes, conquer a few Gulf states, but certainly not the entire gulf.

Neither Arabia nor Australia have so many big rivers, so its the difference between Egypt... and Egypt. And Egypt is quite easy to conquer.

Africa and Australia, then. The southern continent is quite obviously modeled after Australia, and the eastern one does bear resemblance to Africa...

So if you really don't want those northern states independent, it would just make more sense to color in the whole thing red.

I don't think the Empire would bother to conquer them.

Not at all. It is useless for the Empire.

NO! The whole eastern continent, useless? It has such a myriad of goods, guarded by relatively few and weak civilizations... It's a bloody cornucopia under their noses.

Backwardness doesn't matter. Logistics matter. Tenability matters. The desert is much easier to conquer and hold, and has much more immediate profit. Furthermore, the Empire will discover it first anyway.

The Carribean housed the second independent nation in the Americas...

There are not that many logistical problems in conquering a land with a temperate clime and few natives. Of course there are some, but there are more problems in trying to fight a desert war against nomads.

The eastern continent is much like Sudan in that respect. Admittedly, the British subdued it after a while, yes. But given the earlier contact, the natives would not be carrying spears into battle against rifles.

And the Empire simply cannot afford the money and the men it would take to subdue the desert tribes when they discover them. It would take a longer, more concentrated effort, and for very little gain.

Canada was taken due to fur trade and colonial competition with France, NK. The Eastern Continent is not like Canada at all. It is unlikely to be completely conquered by the Empire. It is chiefly maritime anyway, and has no need of such huge overland holdings. Instead, it shall seek to take over the coasts, and the rivers, especially closer to home.

And you think there will be no such other trades in this world? There's plenty of reason to take any strip of land, and the Eastern continent fits this pattern perfectly. There are weak states, many trade goods, and a massive land all for the taking. It's like the whole bloody Americas, so the Empire could then be compared to the conquistodors in this example, if you like.

That might be the situation right now, but back then, it was simply too far away. The Empire has better things to do than actually explore all the way to the south. By the time it will get there, advanced civilizations shall emerge there anyway. It shall be much more profitable for the Empire to trade with them than to conquer them at that point.

There's always the rogue vagabound adventurer who will willingly go a bit further to discover things for his nation, and when you have a relatively bountiful land with a pleasant climate and few natives... What on earth is stopping the Empire? A few thousand leagues of water? That didn't stop Spain from taking the Americas under her belt, or the Phillipines for that matter. It didn't stop the Netherlands from taking Indonesia. Nor Britain from Australia.

The south of the eastern continent is much like Subsaharan Africa in that it would have few powerful nations to oppose the Empire, while by contrast the rich land has plenty of products that they can offer the empire. In the enlightenment era, that could be furs, incenses, and precious metals; in the modern age, oil...

 

[das]

We could argue like this for a long time, NK. I am rather tired of it, so I just say that I still disagree on all the issues, and furthermore, I don't live in Siberia, I live in the Urals.

I shall now work on my own version of the map, its much quicker that way. We can then have a poll.

 

[Kozmos]

All good then, keep arguing its fun to watch. if noone minds I shall be taking the names of IWS Supremacy and Sea Snake for my ships

Also how developed are the infantry weapons? What decade of the OTL 20th century for comparison I mean.

 

[North King]

We could argue like this for a long time, NK. I am rather tired of it, so I just say that I still disagree on all the issues, and furthermore, I don't live in Siberia, I live in the Urals.

I shall now work on my own version of the map, its much quicker that way. We can then have a poll.

Well, then why don't we just go with your map, without bothering with the poll? All the das fanboys will come in droves to vote for your map, no matter what the rationale is behind it...

 

[Oruc]

I'll be your fanboy North King! (probably more of a hindrance then a help)

 

[North King]

I don't want fanboys. They're irritating.

 

[Oruc]

NO! dont say such things! they help inflate ego's

 

[das]

All those who criticize fanboys and their toadying clearly don't know how to enjoy it. However, I could straight off only list one-two fanboys and I doubt that its that much of an influence. But lets not make a poll anyway, and continue the discussion. Perhaps a more thorough recreation of the history of the Empire's expansion is in order, to better determine the way it came to this. On the other hand, that might only be a waste of time and characters.

Here's my idea of the political map, btw, though its not very good as the first, better version was lost by accident (also the reason for the delay in posting it). Not imposing it or anything, its all up to discussion. I do however state that in my preliminary rough draft of the Empire's history mentioned such events as the conquest of the north of the Eastern Continent...

 

[Kozmos]

GAH what is that avatar emu?

 

[Swissempire]

All those who criticize fanboys and their toadying clearly don't know how to enjoy it. However, I could straight off only list one-two fanboys and I doubt that its that much of an influence. But lets not make a poll anyway, and continue the discussion. Perhaps a more thorough recreation of the history of the Empire's expansion is in order, to better determine the way it came to this. On the other hand, that might only be a waste of time and characters.

Here's my idea of the political map, btw, though its not very good as the first, better version was lost by accident (also the reason for the delay in posting it). Not imposing it or anything, its all up to discussion. I do however state that in my preliminary rough draft of the Empire's history mentioned such events as the conquest of the north of the Eastern Continent...

They're both BAD, TOO MANy COUNTRIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe we should write the history, THEN make the final map?

 

[Swissempire]

This is my idea of it, harkening back to the begginning where we agreed on stuff, and comprimised, like when we decided how the geopolitical spectrum would be....

one world power, and probably two to three medium sized powers

Acceptable

I like. Compromise is good

So thus, we find the Proposal.

Red=Empire(Imperials): The Empire is the definition of Hegemony. The Empire directly controls most of the world, while excersing Socio, Economic, and Political Control over the rest of the remaining nations. But it is dieing in its decadence, being destroyed by its power.

Irish Green= Delthala(Delthalins): Delthala is the closest to Empire Geographically, but the furthest culturally. Its racial characteristics(think the Basques) and its long held political(some wierd thing called a republic) religious views(very odd and spiritual), in conjunction with its passiveness have led it to intertwine itself with Empire, precluding both full independence, but also conqueration by the Imperials. While it is the only Republic left in existance, harkening back to a time of City-States and Most Excellent Republics, Republic is a theoretical government theorized in early PH(Pre-Hegemony) by Playdoh Sintoni. The Delthalin republic has become corrupt, because the Imperial backed candiates and bills get the most donations and lobbyist monies and political support, and thus always win.

Dark Blue= Frebec(Frebecious): Frebec is a brownnoser nation to the fullest. Known dergoitorally as "Mice" by others for their love of Mouse-Meat and their ability to scurry and run, at the beginning of Imperial Hegemony, they had the ability to become great themselves. They had a great leader, Nipoleein, a great General who swept across the penisula, defeating the Swainish and others, but when their great leader fell, and their empire began to collapse, they called upon the Empire for help, at the expense of their colonies and ports on their land. They would go on to be the Imperials lackeys throughout the remaining Hegemony Wars. Their language, a beautiful one with a silly frivolous overpronouciation of vowels, in spoken only by the elite, and never in non-Frebecious company. If you haven't figured out what culture this is based off yet, your a moron.

Light Blue- Inericadia(Inericins): Inericadia was one of Empires first major overseas colonies for living not just exploiting cultures for buisness. It was granted an Imperial Charter and mostly left alone to self-govern. But when the Natives attacked, and the Inericins were left without aid to fight back, they grew more and more distant from the Motherland, maitaining their own Assembly, Army, and elevating the Lord-Governorship to a Kingly-level, making it hereditary. When, during the Hegemony Wars, it began using its own army to secure the colonies of falling powers, it realized its importance to the Empire. So, at a critical point in the Reick War, when she demanded independence, while still pledging to recognize the Emperor as Ceremonial Emperor, while the Lord-Governor took the title Monarch Governor and ruled truly as an indepenent King. They have been staunch allies every since.

Really Dark Gray-Green- Sinoguo(Sinese): Sinoguo is one of the most ancient civilizations in the world. Since the begginning of time they have ruled. They invented the Imperial System, though it was unstable and dynastic. They stretch from the temperate zones all the way south to the tundra. They are a proud people, and it would be a hassle to subjecate them. But back to history. They were at one time ahead of the technological curve, inventing gunpowder and paper, and having these exported to the North Continent Powers. But they semi-isolated themselves, working on tea ceremonies instead of pratical things. When the Northern powers visited once more they were at first very xenophobic, but when they saw their future was at stake, they were quick to modernize. They became a semi-power in their own right. But this could not do. The Imperials in conjunction with the Frebecious and the Inericins first got the population addicted to Chocium, a drug made from the flower of the Cocoa tree. Then, later the Imperials came in and set up a puppet dynasty, that rules to this day.

Light-faded Green- Sonrus(Sonrusians): Developing later than the Sinese, they had a very fuedal culture. But the amount of trade going through them to the middle landlocked states caused them unite under the Impur(their translation of Emperor). They began to expand to develop resources to feed the Northern Industries. They were the most northernized of the nations on theri continent, and they were more closly aligned with Empire, while others chose the other Northern Powers. They have kept their independence because they have helped the Imperials systematically seize power, conquering, destroying, and dividing all nation-states on the continent. Their current Impur and the dynasty rulling it, the Empirovs, are tied by bloodline to the Emperor himself, the current Impur being the 2nd Cousin of the current Emperor.

Little Yellow Islands- Hawanpu: A strange polynesian people, i need a reason fro them to exist, any thoughts?

 

[Insane_Panda]

Eh. That seems like too little nations - if there were only that many, the empire would have already taken over the world. There should still be a lot of powerless, small states.

We shall see what das and NK say, they are, afterall the chief architects of this and the history, and should thusly decide upon the nations which are placed in the NES. The names seem strange to me, and the culture of these empires needs to be developed alittle more than being generic fantasy nations.

 

[Swissempire]

Oh, i know. Thus is the nature of comprimise. And those are just little tiny suggested backrounds. I think though in a world where there is a SUPERSUPERSUPER Power, small states would become obsolete. And i think more poeple should be giving input, this should be a groups project

 

[North King]

No, no, and furthermore, no! No offense, Swiss, but those nations are terribly stereotypical, and nothing like what I had in mind, and there are too few.

The world is not simple.

 

[~Darkening~]

Heh. I agree with whoever said it tht the islands to the far east shoulnd't be unified. Primitive, weak, island like societies who are out of the range of the Empire. Leave at least one independant ;].