Ideas For a UU Like a Fast Settler

[Calouste]

Personally I think Agriculture + Wheel is better (the reason being that you will eventually need both wheel and mining, so why not start with the more expensive one and tech the cheaper one?).

I agree that a fast settler doesn't sound so great. It will get consumed in a few turns anyways.

As for UB...maybe a forge that gives, say, +1 to all tiles with 3 (kind of like the Financial trait)? Would certainly help with Industrious wonder-building. (Or along, the same lines, a library that gives commerce...or a granary that gives food...)

As for UU - a little while ago I had an idea of making a custom unit that had an innate ability to ignore enemy terrain defenses. That is, enemy would not receive defensive bonuses from hill, forest, river, or city walls/culture defense. But the enemy would still have fortify bonus, promotions, and unit abilities. Maybe a little overpowered, but you could compensate for that by decreasing the strength of the unit.

The Wheel is a useless tech to have initially for wonderspam in most cases. It's really only useful in the early stages if you have Marble or Stone in the BFC and not a river, and if you have Marble or Stone in the BFC, it's usually better to settle on it. The 1 or 2 turns you save doesn't really make up for the fact that you have to research an extra tech to get to Bronze Working or Polytheism.

 

[r_rolo1]

I've read somewhere (I suppose) that the combination of industrious/philosophical was so much powerful that Firaxis deliberately avoided it.

I heard that too. But remember that we are talking of the same people that said they never got a AP diplo win in the BtS game tests ...

It's because wonders give GP points and industrious would double them.

See: threads by obsolete for examples of how one of phi/ind is good in the right hands. Both would be silly.

To be honest , I don't think it would be worse than , let's say, Cre/Org in the hands of a serious ReXer in a land that justifies the expansion . And don't forget that a lot of what obsolete got was more based in good diplo ( a thing that he NEVER said , but that is obvious to any people that actually read his games and thinked a little ) than any virtues of stacking wonders on top of wonders and settling all the GP in your cap city ... in the end the strat he followed in those games is little more than a off-shoot of OCC games with some nasty cav wars to make it not end as a OCC ... and any people that actually played a OCC that is not AW as well knows that diplo is the key of survival. Pro/Imp with good diplo would definitely work better with his strat than Phi/Ind pissing everyone, i can assure you

 

[joanne]

When I first got BTS I imagined greece would have a PHI/IND leader who gets heavy diplo penalties with the AI's so they build lots of wonders but get invaded often, reflects their historical role quite accurately imo

 

[NihilZero]

People who think IND + PHI would be invincible are aware that you can get bigger wonder building bonuses from hooking up the associated resources, right? So by their logic, a PHI leader with access to Stone and Marble would be even more unstoppable and unbalanced than a IND + PHI leader without.

 

[Kid R]

I think a fast settler would save like about 5 hammers. A fast missionary might be useful sometimes, just to get over the fact you can only have 3 in flight at the same time.

An offensive unit that levels up at double speed would be interesting. Axewoman, strength 4 - she may not be quite as strong but she's clever.

 

[r_rolo1]

I think a fast settler would save like about 5 hammers. A fast missionary might be useful sometimes, just to get over the fact you can only have 3 in flight at the same time.

An offensive unit that levels up at double speed would be interesting. Axewoman, strength 4 - she may not be quite as strong but she's clever.

Jaguar warrior , 5 str , 2 XP away from having double move on woods. Dog Warrior, 4 str, resourceless , +100% vs melee ...

What do this UU have in common besides being weaker than the standart unit? ( A lot of ) People hate them

@OP

If you actually want a settler UU, probably the best thing to do is to make the bonus be a heavy hammer discount. Adding also a early maintenance reductor as UB ( say, a library or a granary that also reduces some maintenance, in line of the Zulu UB ) would make this a very solid civ, maybe even a little overpowered

 

[joanne]

Speaking of overpowered I recall seeing someone do an uber-civ with a leader that had all traits and every unit/building replaced with the best UU/UB replacement, but that was over a year ago so I don't know how it could be done

 

[Zechnophobe]

Fast Settler:
Move 3
Doesn't use food to produce.

So you can build one while growing, but not quite as fast. An easier thing to build since it doesn't halt your growth.

 

[noto2]

umm...what good would a fast settler be? At that poitn in the game you dont have units that move 3 spaces....this fast settler would just get raped by barbs/animals. Totally stupid. OTOH, a cheap settler would be a good UU for a civ that can make use of it, like a civ with CRE or ORG or FIN to pay for all those cities.

 

[nishant1911]

People who think IND + PHI would be invincible are aware that you can get bigger wonder building bonuses from hooking up the associated resources, right? So by their logic, a PHI leader with access to Stone and Marble would be even more unstoppable and unbalanced than a IND + PHI leader without.

is it not? people cry in happiness when they see both marble and stone in BFC.
it is a game won right from the start if you ask me.

a thing that people neglect while talking about wonderspam is how much you are slowing down the AI by denying these. also a thing that to be noted is that wonderspam is done in comination with SE of pyramids (you don't wanna miss this)

here is a sample super city wonderspam by multineer.
look how much AI is slowed down. and its not even philosophical.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=361447

 

[NihilZero]

is it not? people cry in happiness when they see both marble and stone in BFC.
it is a game won right from the start if you ask me.

a thing that people neglect while talking about wonderspam is how much you are slowing down the AI by denying these. also a thing that to be noted is that wonderspam is done in comination with SE of pyramids (you don't wanna miss this)

here is a sample super city wonderspam by multineer.
look how much AI is slowed down. and its not even philosophical.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=361447

So in essence you are agreeing with me. You concede that having stone and marble - which is completely feasible in the game and not outlawed for being overpowered - is superior to having the Industrious trait; and you also note that the Philosophical trait is not necessary for a dominant wonderspam game. In other words, PHI + IND is not overpowered.

 

[nishant1911]

So in essence you are agreeing with me. You concede that having stone and marble - which is completely feasible in the game and not outlawed for being overpowered - is superior to having the Industrious trait; and you also note that the Philosophical trait is not necessary for a dominant wonderspam game. In other words, PHI + IND is not overpowered.

no i'm not
having both stone and marble in the BFC is rare, and so is 3 gold. if a map script that allows only either of above and usual food source then yes it would be overpowered. all i'm saying that if you're the kind of guy that plays the map and not reroll till you get both stone and marble ,then having industrious will be very good for wonderspam.

philosophical trait is not necessary for a dominant wonderspam game as is seen in the mutineer's game, but hey,,,,, we always want more.
if that game had philo instead of financial, i bet result would have been even more suprising.

 

[iggymnrr]

Thanks for the ideas. I guess I'm leaning towards an agrarian UB like a granary that stores an extra 10% food. Doesn't have to be spectacular. I much prefer wet corn or pigs in the capitol BFC to either stone or marble. (Having both is an automatic reroll for me. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard.)

Maybe I experiment with a barb-proof worker: can defend a city against the barb onslaught, build a road to the AI with impunity and get back to safety when stolen.

 

[pollock]

I decided to try out ghandi with fast worker in immortal game. I even decided to reroll for stone. ( i nearly never reroll ) It was truly a disgustingly strong start with both mids and GW and a well developed capital with represention to use the extra tiles. Many people probably know this but im a warmonger blitzer

 

[Earthling]

Industrious is far more powerful on certain maps on settings - your average small/standard Pangea/Continents often has way too many marble/stone resources. But I too wouldn't say it's competitively overpowered compared to combos of Fin/Org/Philo we already see. However, I think the problem in discouraging playstyles among newer or just more carefree players would be significant and am ok the combo isn't there.

 

[michmbk]

I created a mod with a PHI/IND leader (mehmed) and it was pretty fun. I didn't find him to be any stronger than someone like Darius or Liz though.

Ironically, I also forgot I had modded mehmed, so I played a couple games against PHI/IND mehmed when the AI used him. I didn't think the AI did any better with those traits.

 

[NihilZero]

no i'm not
having both stone and marble in the BFC is rare, and so is 3 gold. if a map script that allows only either of above and usual food source then yes it would be overpowered. all i'm saying that if you're the kind of guy that plays the map and not reroll till you get both stone and marble ,then having industrious will be very good for wonderspam.

philosophical trait is not necessary for a dominant wonderspam game as is seen in the mutineer's game, but hey,,,,, we always want more.
if that game had philo instead of financial, i bet result would have been even more suprising.

You don't need stone and marble in the BFC (which is unusual) to get stone and marble, both can often be hooked up. It's quite rare to have no access to at least one.

The Industrious trait does not guarantee wonders. The only wonder that is available at the start of the game (and only for some civs) is Stonehenge. The rest require that their corresponding techs be researched first to unlock them. So far, so obvious.

Ergo, an economic advantage like Financial or Organised (or BFC gems) is arguably better for winning the race for wonders since you can get to the techs first and get a headstart on your rivals. Industrious won't do you any good if Liz is ten techs ahead of you and has built all the wonders before you can even start any of them.

The point of this longwinded post is: Industrious guarantees nothing. It helps, sure, but a tech lead or controlling key resources are both much more significant. So there is no way that IND + PHI can be stronger than some of the better trait combos.

 

[Phyrio]

How about a settler with two strength?

 

[tempuraki]

How about a scout that can tame animals and assimilate barbarians? A diplomat that replaces spy that can't be captured unless failed mission?

 

[jeffah3539]

How about a scout that can tame animals and assimilate barbarians? A diplomat that replaces spy that can't be captured unless failed mission?

This gave me a cool idea. How about an Assassin civ? It could have an Assassin UU that replaces spies and gets a discount on missions, like say 25%. And it could have a Courthouse UB that generates extra espionage points. It would probably be way overpowered if you know how to use it but really fun.