Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Valkrionn, Jul 31, 2010.
Not possible for just the one unit.
Hmm. How about a new command for ranged units?
It would absolutely have to be a new command, yes. Had thought about that when making the last post.
Should be possible, just not terribly high priority atm honestly.
Understandable with all the balancing and ideas flying around
The only gripe I currently have against 1.3 is the hill giants and cyclops spawning everywheeeerrrre
They're just not shiftable from your territory with all the warriors in the world early in the game, and if a hill giant gets lucky he can grab a few promos and sweep the civ away.
So, a suggestion to add to the scheduled barb balancing...
Bring back the orc stacks (or equivalent minor beasts with similar strength) as the initial barbarians who venture into your territory to pillage stuff. A stack is shiftable with warriors, and more importantly, you can defend against them outside of a city at a time when maintaining your slow build improvements is important.
Also, with the clan being friends of the barbarians it makes little sense for them to be when the majority of the barbs arn't even the same race. Having a few orcs running around justifies this somewhat.
Currently, goblins only guard forts which really impede progress, and it's the unshiftable giants who currently make incursions into territory. This is fine, but maybe these guys need to be spawning after bronze working or archery? Again, it will require effort to get rid of them/defend against them outside of cities but it's doable with the better soldiers. At the mo it's like having orthus popping in every few turns, especially given the rate at which the lairs spawn.
Hopefully this will make expansion still a challenge to do, but without stifling the world with a million gobforts and hill giant/cyclop lairs by the end of the earlygame.
Many might not realize it, but it was only with "modern" pressurized sewers that RL cities started having native population growth (higher birth rates than death rates). The population loss was made up for by immigration. Which suggests a change that could help early city growth, and make use of the city spell system: setting a cities immigration policy:
High immigration: +1 health/-1 happy (more people not fully assimilated, more unrest)
Normal: 0 health/ 0 happy
Low immigration: -1 health/+1 happy.
Basically, this is what will happen (and all DLL code is already done for it. Was planned for 1.3, just decided not to delay the release).
All lairs have three 'levels'.
Each level spawns stronger barbarians, and has stronger exploration results and culture.
At specific tech levels, the old lairs stop spawning, replaced by more advanced lairs (just like animals do). This means that in the late game you won't have the weak lairs spawn, it will jump straight to the strong ones.
Each lair has a guardian (think Minotaur, here). This guardian is spawned as soon as the lair is created, is stronger than the generic spawn, and has a leash that will slowly expand until it is let roam free... Incidentally, just as the lair upgrades, spawning a new Guardian.
When lairs are explored, they automatically downgrade to the PillageImprovement listed (used mainly for Epic Lairs like the Pyre); This means that when the third tier is explored, it will downgrade to the second tier. Then the first. Then be removed.
Barb units in general will be expanded on... I'm looking to make units like Zarcaz (commanders) more common, for one.
I don't particularly like that idea, personally.
Sounds pretty good, although lair spawn rate might need reducing if it requires multiple explores to remove one, and if they each generate more culture at each new level. There's already so many lairs that currently spawn that the culture of each overlaps with another.
In fact, would it be too much to put a cap on number of lairs that can exist at one time? If they upgrade over time then it shouldn't be a problem keeping the stronger barbarians in the game since weak ones won't be around to block big lair spawn in the late game.
Initial lairs will only put out culture on their own plot. Second tier is as it is now. Third tier has the same range, but a stronger hold, and is therefore putting actual culture into all of it's tiles.
Well there's a civic rework in the (very long) pipeline I believe. It might be interesting given the newfound importance of unhealthiness to have early civics that favour happy over health and vice versa to help balance out a deficit if you don't have the resources to hand?
Ah, cool beans It was looking a little messy, as well as being a bit too difficult to expand with all the barb culture over the place. I suppose one tile lairs will still require removing if they're on the ideal spot for a city or if you've got a lair next to one, so they still block expansion as was the intention there. Look forward to the fix
It won't take long to do, either. Like I said, all tags required are already implemented, and working.
Main delay is fixing other bugs that are found, and balancing the exploration results. And the health changes.
Thinking sometime over the next week.
Most health changes will probably be done by tomorrow though. Then I'd have to tweak the improvements speed.
Jotnar work will probably be for the second patch, right?
Most likely yes, unless you finish it before I finish with the lairs.
Is there any chance that you'll be assimilating the Dao from Orbis? They were a very nice civ that unfortunately didn't get a lot of exposure after Ahwaric went on hiatus. Or the Palatinate for that matter, though I didn't like them as much as the Dao.
Isn't there supposed to be a script that deletes "dangerous" features from the starting positions of players, like mana guardians and such? Since barb lairs spawn a few turns into the game, the script doesn't really take those into account, which means a lair can spawn right on top of a player.
Yeah, silly me for posting Feedback in the Feedback thread.
Oh yeah I wish that was possible, and it's a stupid oversight that it's not. The blame lies squarely on Vanilla Civ with, from what I've heard, no way around it. It's amazing the limits that good modders like the FfH and RifE teams have been able to workaround, but I haven't seen anything much that could be done to fix the custom game screen. NumericUpDown boxes for certain options would be another nice addition that AFAIK are impossible. So silly that you can select your Race before selecting a Leader, but it won't auto-filter the Leader select... Even in a Vanilla Civ custom game that would be desirable.
D'Tesh rework thoughts:
Currently think the new pop restriction concept is a good idea. Would like to see that in place for the other Fallow Civs as well. However I think the D'Teshi caps need a bit of tweaking. Since they get -50% Great Person points, the inclination to use Specialists is fairly low, which means it'd probably be in their best interest to work all the tiles in a city's area and not rely on Great People much. The population caps allow this to happen, but the increase in the caps seem a bit off.
Not including the Palace or Tower of D'Tesh, normal cities can have a max cap of 22, but they have 20 workable tiles, which means cities would have 2 specialists producing GPP, where all the GPP should be going to to is the capital.
Extending a normal City with the Tower of D'Tesh makes them have a max cap of 34, but there are 36 workable tiles, so cities aren't working to capacity.
I think it would work best if the cap increases from buildings along with the Undying Trait added up to 20, and then make the Tower of D'Tesh give +16 to the cap along with increasing the workable range.
The D'Teshi Capital's pop max in the end should be 50 instead of 46 currently (just because it's a nice round number ), so the Palace would need to add +14 to the cap, which has the added effect of generating a base of 24 GPP a turn from those extra citizens if worked to capacity excluding any bonus specialists, which seems alright. The only odd thing about this is that the Tower gives more than the Palace, which just doesn't seem right.
Most likely yes, at least on the Dao. We already have permission, just didn't want to do it for 1.3.
Barb lairs spawn immediately in RifE, not a few turns in. That was a change made by Wild Mana to allow for map regeneration.
Though your main point (that lairs can still spawn on you) is accurate, and intended. Since they spawn on the first turn, they'll never spawn on you in large groups; You'll get one or two next to you. That's intended.
Sorry, wasn't trying to be a dick. We just desperately need Balance feedback; This thread is primarily for requests. I'd like to keep all of the improvement/health related posts in the balance thread, so we can have actual discussions about it.
I completely agree. Some integer gameoptions, or drop down boxes, would be very nice. As would the ability to change the way data is presented. Let's hope CiV offers that.
Quite honestly: I went with numbers that felt right for the building, I didn't consider the total too much (just wanted it to be high enough. )
Changing it as you suggest would likely be a good thing, though I have an idea on how to do it without having the Tower be higher than the palace.
Not sure if this is in your power to change, but is there a way to force civs' starting locations to be at least a certain distance from each other? I'm really not liking ErebusContinent's tendency to put civ starting locations right next to each other.
(Some advice on what settings I should use to ensure this doesn't happen would also be appreciated.)
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