Ideologies

[Arlborn]

Brazil and Argentina are their own civs, not part of our Bolivarian civ.

A side note, how is Venezuela a dictatorship when they keep having legitimate elections?? That sounds like something they would say on Fox news. My country (Canada) seems a lot less democratic than Venezuela. Our Prime Minister shut down our Parliament for the stated reason that he was going to loose a confidence vote. Chavez lost his second last referendum by 1% and accepted the result....??

Let's just start by the fact that he tried to take take military control of Venezuela in 1992. Just like a dictator would.

Also, I am sorry, but your statement is wrong. Here:

"The referendum was defeated on December 2, 2007, with 51% of the voters rejecting the amendments proposed by Chávez.[118] Chávez stated that he would step down at the end of his second term in 2013.[119] In November 2008, he proposed another constitutional amendment removing term limits, so that he could remain in office until as late as 2021.[120] This time, the resolution passed with 54% voting in favor after 94% of the votes have been counted.[121]". Wikipedia.

As long as he is alive he ain't stepping down peacefully my friend. I am from South America, we just hear more about Venezuela in the news than other parts of the world, and seriously, even our President(Brazilian) had to step away a bit publicly from him because he is leading a clear dictatorship. It is a clear fact many prefer to turn the eyes away from because of Venezuela's resources.

 

[ianinsane]

Guys, let's leave that kind of political discussion out of this thread. I'd love to say a thing or two about Chavez myself but only if someone starts a "Bashing/Worshipping Hugo Chavez" thread.

To take it back on an apolitical level: Don't worry, Arlborn. We're very aware of the differences among Latin American countries and won't lump them together. As DVS said, Brazil or Argentina are not part of the Bolivarian civ. They don't even share the same state ideology. The Bolivarians have "Amerindian" while Argentina and Brazil both are "Western". Civs sharing the same ideology don't necessarily have the same civics or the same favourite civics.

 

[DVS]

I still don't see what part of my statement is wrong. He had one referendum, lost, accepted the result, proposed a modified bill, and won. The sounds a lot more like democracy that what happens in most countries.

I think he would give up power if he lost an election. If he ever proves me wrong about that, then he will be a dictator. Until then, it just sounds like a right wing smear to call someone who has been elected many times a dictator. I suppose you would think it a more free and democratic country if Carmona were brought to power like the US tried to do in 2002? If you would consider a place like Columbia a democracy, and Venezuela a dictatorship, it seems pretty obvious that you are talking about markets more than votes.

In terms of picking our starting civics, I don't see why we wouldn't give them a democratic civic.

But, like ianinsane says, let's keep the political discussions to a minimum in this forum.

@ianinsane- I'd like to hear your advice on what civics they (and any others) should start with.

 

[Arlborn]

Guys, let's leave that kind of political discussion out of this thread. I'd love to say a thing or two about Chavez myself but only if someone starts a "Bashing/Worshipping Hugo Chavez" thread.

To take it back on an apolitical level: Don't worry, Arlborn. We're very aware of the differences among Latin American countries and won't lump them together. As DVS said, Brazil or Argentina are not part of the Bolivarian civ. They don't even share the same state ideology. The Bolivarians have "Amerindian" while Argentina and Brazil both are "Western". Civs sharing the same ideology don't necessarily have the same civics or the same favourite civics.

OK, that clears up a bit! Thanks.

And sorry about the political debate, I will refrain to say something else. But just remember that I am a very "left" kind of guy. Chavez is simply... Well.

Good luck guys! Hope to see some great mod coming out soon!

 

[ianinsane]

@ianinsane- I'd like to hear your advice on what civics they (and any others) should start with.

As soon as Bahmo will have posted all the civics.

 

[ianinsane]

OK, it's done. Here's the Excel file with the percentage of cultural ideologies in all our cities. This was really difficult. For some countries I found excellent statistic material. That's the reason why UK, Australia, Canada and the US are very detailed. Some countries like France and the Netherlands don't collect statistic material concerning religion or ethnicity at all, that's why I had to rely on rough estimation there.

After collecting all the numbers I still think that 5% ethnicity share would be a good treshold for a ideology to be present. Otherwise our world might look too homogeneous.

OK, have a look at the file, tell me what you think about it. In some cities we'll have to add additional ideologies not based on ethnicity but on personal judgement (like I described before with "second step"), e.g. adding Western in Istanbul, Tehran, Shanghai, Tokyo... I did not yet do it in this file.
If you are from a country that I did not get first hand statistics from have a look at your numbers and tell me if you think there's something wrong.

BTW, wherever one ethnicity/ideology has a clear majority (normally >60%) I wrote 99% into the box...just for simplicity's sake.
I hope all the formulas work for your excel version.

 

[ianinsane]

Whoops...here's the file.

 

[Genghis_Kai]

Wah, truly amazing staff! Great Job!

Yes, it looks like 5% was a very good pick. I would make a few suggestions for applying the exemptions in the East Asia/ANZ region later.

 

[DVS]

Wow awesome dude, I can't believe you did all that already!

 

[Bahmo]

As soon as Bahmo will have posted all the civics.

I'm done, if anyone cares.

 

[civplayah]

I have a few questions about the political ideologies.
1) Which ideologies would belong where?
2) Are they going to work corporation-style, where if one spreads, the rest can't? Or are you just going to treat it just like a religion?
Although I am not a modder, and I have never modded anything, I may want to take a shot at implementing these.

 

[NikNaks]

Okay, I'll take this opportunity to clear up any misunderstandings.

We ditched the political ideologies idea in favour of the cultural one, thinking that the political matters would be dealt with better in civics.

 

[civplayah]

I explored the XML, and I think I can do it. One question, though; are we going to make certain ideologies spread faster than others, or would that be too biased?

 

[ianinsane]

The ideologies are already implemented, they just need to be slightly reworked to fit the RevDCM standard. If you could do that it would be great.

Different spreading speed is definately something to think about. I guess that Islamic, African and Hindu should spread faster than Jewish or Amerindian for example...

 

[civplayah]

Well, I'm more like a modder-in-training, so I think I might need to start with something less complicated (unless reworking it isn't complicated)...
EDIT: Looking over the status thread, I think I could try my hand at events.

 

[Eerdna]

just a question... about civs like "Neutral states" that have diferent nationalities hpw would ideologies apply?

 

[Bahmo]

Good question. I wish I had a good answer. With cities belonging to the simply neutral player, it would differ case-by-case if we did that. The problem with giving Zurich a Western ideology, Kingston (I think it belongs to the neutral player; not sure though) an African one, and so-and-so, is that it's hard to decide what the AI's favorite ideology would be. You could set it to none, but it might still adopt one, and I don't know how it could be guaranteed to adopt the one that fits best.

With Barbarians (rebels), I really don't see why there's any need to give them an ideology. given they're always at war with the civs.

 

[Bahmo]

I have a few questions about the political ideologies.
1) Which ideologies would belong where?

Ianinsane posted a pic of that:

Spoiler :

2) Are they going to work corporation-style, where if one spreads, the rest can't? Or are you just going to treat it just like a religion?
Although I am not a modder, and I have never modded anything, I may want to take a shot at implementing these.

Corporations are still in the game and work as they do in BTS, though they've been changed to real-world corporations. Ideologies replace religions, but work a little differently. They can't be deliberately spread by players with units like missionaries, and represent sizeable amounts of a city's population adherring to them, rather than a strong leadership position. So if there's any way they'll be spread, it's by immigration, but I don't think that's been implemented yet.

 

[Eerdna]

and in the countries like costa rica and switzerland?

 

[Bahmo]

I believe they were left blank since those are our planned neutral nations, however I will give them ideologies, regardless. Ideologically driven war won't be a problem if we just adjust their attititudes to be amiable towards everyone.