If someone is intelligent but chronically unhappy are they still intelligent?

[A'AbarachAmadan]

There is a difference between intelligence, wisdom and happiness. You can definately be one, but not the others. And I do think there are more important things in life than being happy, though that does seem to be the goal of many in the richy West.

 

[Narz]

One can be intelligent and unhappy chronically, however probably this will slowly lead to a decrease in intelligence. There is a nice note by Kafka, in his final years:

"i always thought that i should not be happy so that this wouldnt obstruct me with my work. But being miserable prooved to be at least as much of an obstacle"

And moreover being miserable can lead to several negative defenses against it & the world, that will in the long run most probably minimise intelligence.

Imo it is better to be at least able to feel happy some of the time. Afterall there is really no end in depression, and things can get out of hand.

Good points varwnos. I find myself smarter also when I think positive. Negative thinking generally leads to inaction (out of fear of failure). Of course action (whether you succeed or not) is the way to learn and learning new things creates new nueral pathways which leads to greater functional intelligence.

There is a difference between intelligence, wisdom and happiness. You can definately be one, but not the others.

Hmm, so if you're happy you can't be wise. And if you're wise you can't be intelligent?

And I do think there are more important things in life than being happy, though that does seem to be the goal of many in the richy West.

What is more important than being happy?

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Hmm, so if you're happy you can't be wise. And if you're wise you can't be intelligent?

Sorry, wrote too fast. Meant that you could be just one and not the others, but you could also be all three. I don't think they are that related. I know people that are across the spectrum from about 10/10/10 to 90/90/90. I'm 90/20/80.

What is more important than being happy?

I'd say ones' legacy. For example if you unexpectantly have a child, but raising a child doesn't make you happy, then I still think it is more important to meet your responsibilities and raise that child well than abandon the child for a life that makes you happier. Or alternatively I'm sure most people in the US didn't want to fight in WWII, but many gave up their own personal happiness, and even their lives, for the greater good of the world. I'd say both of those are FAR more important than personal happiness.

 

[Kyriakos]

It isnt correct to associate being happy with being unintelligent however, and as for 'wisdom' it is even harder to agree on a set definition for it than for intelligence. Most people think that they are intelligent, and that is fine since in reality that is a work of their instinct of survival. In today's world everything is very antagonistic, and so one tends to want to think of himself in some positive way in some respect. In the end it is a frutiless task from an intellectual point of view, since nomatter how intelligent one is he still has just a very small fraction of knowledge in his field, and that is about all. A great surgeon is very good in his work, but he isnt a good mathematician, let alone someone important in mathematics. A great mathematician couldnt make a theory about microbiology. Then there are endless fields of theoretical knowledge, in the humanities, sociology and philosophy, and there are the conginitive and medical sciences of psychiatry and neuropsychology.
So in reality no matter how intelligent one is he is just one person, and his knowledge is limited. Ofcourse some people feel that they are more limited than others, and some other people on the contrary feel that they are very important, but imo all of that is secondary in importance. One should think from time to time that he can think and move just so that he can stay alive, and all of the relative complexity of his consciousness of that abilities was also enabled for that seemingly simple task. In this way ofcourse it doesnt matter how intelligent one is, since he is of the same value as the next person.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

Mental illness and bouts of depression aside.

If someone is a genius but can't successfully maintain a positive emotional state at least some of the time would you still consider them smart?

I used to be smarter when i was younger. But that (aprox) 5 year depression i had a while ago really couldn't have had any good effects in this area.
Nowadays i have periodic depressions - one day yes, a few days no. But even without a depression i don't succede in having a positive state, i have a neutral or positive-ish state at best.
I'm not saying that i am a genius, i am just saying that negative states certainly won't help you in problems requireing thinking to much. Think that this could happen every single day and what do you get ? ...

 

[aneeshm]

Narz and Perf, of course Im kind of making a blanket statement, and there will always be exceptions. Generally speaking though, wisdom is a burden. Acquiring wisdom is like pulling a cart behind you. At first, when youre young, the carts empty and you barely even know its there, its so light. But as time goes by and you travel further down the road, it gets heavier, until finally at the end of your journey, youre straining and gasping to pull it.

What you speak of is knowledge . Wisdom actually makes it easier to pull the cart . And those who have reached the epitome of wisdom - the enlightened ones , like the Buddha , Mahavira , Janaka , Ashtavakra , et al - have realised that pulling the cart is not necessary , and have relinquished their hold on it ( or , you could conversely say that the cart has left its hold over them ) .

Btw, wisdom and intelligence are two completely different things.

True . Intelligence is the ability . Wisdom is the direction .

 

[Tee Kay]

Mental illness and bouts of depression aside.

If someone is a genius but can't successfully maintain a positive emotional state at least some of the time would you still consider them smart?

The two conditions may be able to co-exist but if they can't "maintain a positive emotional state", then I would not consider themselves smart.

I consider a smart person to be a person who fits in well in society. Social skills and overall state of mind is much more important than academic achievements. Also, if a person is a genius but have no optimism, no positive emotions then he/she cannot utilise his/her knowledge at its full potential.

 

[Hakim]

Perhaps it's a cultural difference between US/elsewhere and Europe/elsewhere, but I've always associated happiness with stupidness.

Gotta say that "maintain a positive emotional state" sounds a bit like pretending.

 

[downwithgravity]

Of course. The more you know, the more you realize you don't know anything at all, and the more there is to be unhappy about.

 

[sanabas]

Dont doubt it Narz, I truly believe it. The happiest people I know are the ones who take life at face value, they never question anything or look beneath the surface. The world is much simpler for them. Theyre truly blessed people.

Happiest sure, but why blessed? If the only criteria for a blessed (or good, or successful, or whatever) life is happiness, why not book yourself in for a lobotomy? Blessed happiness for you then.

 

[Narz]

Sorry, wrote too fast. Meant that you could be just one and not the others, but you could also be all three. I don't think they are that related. I know people that are across the spectrum from about 10/10/10 to 90/90/90. I'm 90/20/80.

I don't think they are necessarily related (espeically not in youth) but I do feel like over time a high amount of any one of them (intelligence, wisdom or happiness) should help you grow stronger in one or both of the others.

I'd say ones' legacy. For example if you unexpectantly have a child, but raising a child doesn't make you happy, then I still think it is more important to meet your responsibilities and raise that child well than abandon the child for a life that makes you happier.

I imagine giving up a child for a temporary feeling of relief would be a rather trite and short lived form of happiness. I definitely think one should be responsible in raising their child no matter how they feel at any particular moment but I do imagine (I can only imagine not yet having kids) that many of the greatest joys in life come from the interactions one can have with one's children. I think nature has pretty much programmed us that way.

Or alternatively I'm sure most people in the US didn't want to fight in WWII, but many gave up their own personal happiness, and even their lives, for the greater good of the world. I'd say both of those are FAR more important than personal happiness.

Hmm, I won't touch on the necessity of US involvement in WW II. I will note however that you seem to infer that following "the call of duty" and giving up of certain comforts will necessarily lead to unhappiness. Well I don't doubt that being in a war can be perhaps the most miserable of experiences at times I imagine the commradary one feels with one's fellow solidiers as well as the feeling that one is helping the world (freeing oppressed people, whatever) is a pretty magical one that many soliders perhaps have difficulty finding in everyday mundane civilian life.

My point is that I don't think making a sacrifice to others necessitates feeling worse. In fact if people would realize that helping others and giving up a little bit of numbing comfort could actually be a joyous experience (though I don't support war per-se at the optimal way to do this) more people would do it, and more often.

I used to be smarter when i was younger. But that (aprox) 5 year depression i had a while ago really couldn't have had any good effects in this area.
Nowadays i have periodic depressions - one day yes, a few days no. But even without a depression i don't succede in having a positive state, i have a neutral or positive-ish state at best.
I'm not saying that i am a genius, i am just saying that negative states certainly won't help you in problems requireing thinking to much. Think that this could happen every single day and what do you get ? ...

Hey man! I feel for you. I suffered with a lot of major depression at worst and discouragement at best thruout my adolesence.

There are a lot of books out there that might be able to help you. Check (or order to your local library) - The Strangest Secret (Earl Nightengale), Happiness is a choice (Barry Neil Kauffman), anythng by Brian Tracy or Anthony Robbins would be good.

PM me if you like or have questions.

The two conditions may be able to co-exist but if they can't "maintain a positive emotional state", then I would not consider themselves smart.

I consider a smart person to be a person who fits in well in society. Social skills and overall state of mind is much more important than academic achievements. Also, if a person is a genius but have no optimism, no positive emotions then he/she cannot utilise his/her knowledge at its full potential.

Interesting. I would tend to agree. Except perhaps for the "fits into society" bit. I think a person can make a large difference and be happy AND successful without necessarily "fitting in" with the mainstream. And since the mainstream (like any stream) is constantly flowing anyway what does it matter? As long you can find your niche with a few people. Shoot, Gandhi didn't exactally fit with the mainstream, however he did manage to gain it's respect and even alter it's a course a bit. To me that's more impressinve than just fitting in.

Perhaps it's a cultural difference between US/elsewhere and Europe/elsewhere, but I've always associated happiness with stupidness.

Gotta say that "maintain a positive emotional state" sounds a bit like pretending.

I think the happiness = stupidness is one of the biggest (& perhaps most damaging) cultural myths prevelant in the West. In my experience being happy helps me succeed and achieve more while being depressed or negative leads to less impressive results. It is possible to be a happy realist. May be a challenge but what worthy goal isn't?

Nah, that would be "feigning a positive emotional state". In the end, only you know if you're happy or not so what's the point of pretending?

Of course. The more you know, the more you realize you don't know anything at all, and the more there is to be unhappy about.

Hmm, there's a similar quote by Eienstein I thinkg - "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know, the more I realize I don't know, the more I want to learn". The spin you put on it seems a bit inaccurate (and a bit demotavating). When you learn something you don't know "nothing at all" you know more than before. The fact that there is still much more to learn can be exciting, not depressing (like in learning to play a complex computer game, you can enjoy it at every step and be glad there is still as yet a deeper appreciation and mastery you could still possess). Life is like a really long story (where you can control much of the outcome), it only sucks if the hero is not progressing anywhere or learning anything. He certainly won't know it all by the end but chances are he will have mastered some of the pertinent and found a method to continue growing and learning indefinitely by the end (seems to me like the only way to truly "live happily ever after").

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Happiest sure, but why blessed? If the only criteria for a blessed (or good, or successful, or whatever) life is happiness, why not book yourself in for a lobotomy?

As luck would have it, my medical plan doesnt cover it

 

[Bozo Erectus]

What you speak of is knowledge . Wisdom actually makes it easier to pull the cart . And those who have reached the epitome of wisdom - the enlightened ones , like the Buddha , Mahavira , Janaka , Ashtavakra , et al - have realised that pulling the cart is not necessary , and have relinquished their hold on it ( or , you could conversely say that the cart has left its hold over them ) .

Your Fu is powerful Wise One Is it wisdom or knowledge? Thats a good question, I'll have to think about it.

 

[Narz]

The really wise ones don't pull a cart. They find ways to exploit the natural laws (gravity, wind power, horses, etc.) and the cart pulls them.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

No I think the wise climb into the cart and wait for the dummy behind to push both of them. The intelligent pay illegal immigrants $3.00 an hour to pull the cart. The potheads get distracted by a butterfly, wander away from the road, and get captured, cooked and eaten by polite German cannibals.

 

[Narz]

Just got to build a cart worth pushing I suppose.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Just got to build a cart worth pushing I suppose.

My advice would be to get a cart with a big cushion. The bigger the cushion, the better the pushin'.

 

[Smidlee]

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."

Ahh. Quoting Eccesiastes again I see. Solomon definally knew about wisdom and knowledge. I agree ; true wisdom and knowledge does have it's burdens for wisdom is as of light which reveals many painful truths. Now that I am older I wished there were some things I didn't know.
Solomon went on and pointed out it's still better to be wise than a fool. It's just that wisdom itself didn't bring the happiness ans satifaction as Solomon hope for nor did it keep him from playing the fool.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Ahh. Quoting Eccesiastes again I see. Solomon definally knew about wisdom and knowledge. I agree ; true wisdom and knowledge does have it's burdens for wisdom is as of light which reveals many painful truths. Now that I am older I wished there were some things I didn't know.

Some things are better left unknown. Those who dont know them are lucky.

Solomon went on and pointed out it's still better to be wise than a fool. It's just that wisdom itself didn't bring the happiness ans satifaction as Solomon hope for nor did it keep him from playing the fool.

True wisdom can never bring happiness to a human being.

 

[Narz]

True wisdom can never bring happiness to a human being.

By my definition it does. In fact what does not bring happiness (either directly or providing a pathway towards it) is not wisdom (IMO). What is your definition of wisdom?