If you can build Auric Ascended, do you need him?

[WarKirby]

I've just gotten Auric in my Illian game.

I used the worldbuilder to give him a little... enhancement

• Aeron's chosen
• Combat I-V
• Command I-IV
• Cannibalize
• Strong
• Blitz
• Immortal
• Subdue Beast
• Mobility I-II
• Navigation I-II (not sure if this actually does anything)

He has 8 movement, and recovers 30% of his health after every battle
Now he feels more like the invincible god he should be.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I find these comments very strange. I mean seriously, I know Auric Ascended is an incarnation of an Angel, but why would you call a spellcaster hero that takes 4 national units to take down underpowered? If he has any realistic amount of support, you don't even have a chance to get near him anyway.

For crying out loud, snowfalls by high priests of winter followed by the "real thing" and all your stacks are slaughtered...

As for surviving the slaughter, assume your best production city has 32 hammers, with a forge making it 40. That's surviving for 30 turns after you create The Draw, not nearly enough to crush an entire civ.

 

[PanzerWolf]

He takes practically the entire game to get and he can be defeated by standard Units don’t you see something wrong with that.

Not really, but it should take a huge/ powerful army to do it and it should be costly (see also my comments below).

Do remember that exactly half of his strength is ice element, which is unprecedented among every other unit in the game. Nothing else has that large a proportion of it's power as magical.

It makes him horribly vulnerable to anything with magic, or cold immunity. Any unit that can achieve 15 strength (eidolon, phalanx, sphener, mardero, many other things), combat 5 (easy if you have that strength) and magic immunity (crown of akharien) can take him on with 50% odds.

It's one thing for it to be possible to kill him, but the kind of experienced units you're going to have at that stage of the game can make it pitifully easy. 4 eidolons are replaceable. Auric is not.

Mardero can be given mobility, and can easily stand outside auric's range, sprint along a road and hit him out of nowhere, and kill him instantly. With no godslayer.

AND you can't even protect him with an army, like you would your other heroes. because he always defends the stack.

Not being able to be promoted is a serious disadvantage for him, or he could jsut be given shock, etc to remedy this kind of thing.

I didn't think of these points, so he should be getting something extra here. Could be interesting to "hear" what the FfH-team has to say about this as they've probably have reasons for making AA as he is.

 

[mo123567]

The Draw, not nearly enough to crush an entire civ.

It may or may not be depending on the situation but If declaring unending war on everyone (with the exception of being separrated by map features) isn't enough to threaten your entire civ then you probably are already doing pretty good without the super unit.

As far as on a unit to unit comparison AA is an extremely powerful unit. In that way he isn't underpowered but when you take into account what you have to do to get him then his ability to be killed by a couple of fast units who will never have to face his all powerful spell, then you have a case were maybe the most powerful unit in the game is underpowered.

 

[WarKirby]

the declaration of war is neutralized if you were smart/lucky enough to capture the Seven Pines beforehand. Instant end to all wars.

But you still retain the inability to talk to people you're at war with. So the next time you do get into a war, (regardless of who declares) it's permanant.

 

[Fafnir13]

As for surviving the slaughter, assume your best production city has 32 hammers, with a forge making it 40. That's surviving for 30 turns after you create The Draw, not nearly enough to crush an entire civ.

30 turns at late game is more than enough time to crush the average sized civ, especially if its the entire world attempting to do the crushin.

 

[pchem]

the declaration of war is neutralized if you were smart/lucky enough to capture the Seven Pines beforehand. Instant end to all wars.

What? How does that work? So many of the unique terrain features are totally undocumented.

I just made Auric in a game for the first time. Standard, epic, islands, 11 civs. It was really not rewarding. The war-against-all was too huge a penalty; I had perpetutal blockades against my coastline. I could have possibly kept them clear, but my navy was not large enough.

Auric was a disappointment. He can't get promotions, which is terribly annoying. Even with 60 str, since he has no first strikes, a fleet of 10 galleons/frigates attacking him is enough to badly wound him. If the AI were a bit more coordinated or aggressive, he could have died to simple ships. His snowfall is powerful, but let's face it: unless you were #1/#2 in the game when you made him, you're not going to be able to take anyone over except with him in your attack force. So if you're limited to basically one ultra-SoDoom, why use him anyway? The high priests of winter, coupled with the usual attack force of a few nice heros and +city attack and blitz units, does the job just fine. And you can fight one enemy at a time.

Auric is graphically neat, but totally pointless for a close game and strategically counter-productive.

 

[WarKirby]

30 turns is easily enough to crush a civ in thee late game. I've managed to destroy several nations with a phalanx/archmage/mardero army in less than 5 turns apiece

The seven pines gives you a one time spell, usable by any unit that's standing on it. It has an identical effect to the spell used by Corlindale, the Elohim hero. It halves the armageddon counter, and ends all wars.

Actually, I think it only ends all wars against you. Not sure if it affects wars among the AIs

 

[ExMachina]

Here's my idea:

1. Change Auric's stats to 30 Str with some sort of Ice Affinity. Allow him to gain XP, and remove the increased chance to defend from the Avatar promotion. Having him heal after combat is also a pretty good idea.
2. I like the idea for Auric's Snowfall spell destroying roads.
3. After Ascension is built, Auric can be rebuilt whenever he is killed. However, he cannot be rebuilt if he was killed with the Godslayer.
4. I personally would like to see Auric get some sort of bodyguard units that could protect him against Godslayer-wielding foes. For example, Illian Phalanxes could be have an ability that makes them automatically defend against units with the Godslayer. This way it could potentially require an army to take Auric down, in addition to wielding the Godslayer.

 

[mo123567]

Here's my idea:...

Those are some good ideas to make AA harder to get rid of but it's still doesn't deal with the original question: Is it worth it to complete the draw in the the first place?

AA has to be good enough to potentially make a player win the game on his own merit to justify the sacrifice it takes to get him. If you are already in 1st or 2nd place before the draw you obviosly were doing fine without him. I think the real problem with AA is the draw.

 

[darrelljs]

To the thread title, by the time I've built him, I've never needed him. I just did it to rampage my way to a conquest victory. Gimme Blitz and March and I'd be happy.

Darrell

 

[Gigify]

I personally would like to see Auric get some sort of bodyguard units that could protect him against Godslayer-wielding foes. For example, Illian Phalanxes could be have an ability that makes them automatically defend against units with the Godslayer. This way it could potentially require an army to take Auric down, in addition to wielding the Godslayer.

Tyranis the Unchanging Mulcarns Archangel would be awesome in this role since he actually seems to have been created by Mulcarn to be his bodyguard and I can see him being used by Auric in the same way

 

[Demus]

i've been thinking: usually gods are "kinda" global things. They have some sort of control of their ENTIRE part of creation. So why not reflect this in the game? AA basically is mulcarn, a god. Why not make his snowfall worldwide? This would allow him to sit at home, while the other SoD's of the illian empire run around facing weakened oponents. Obviously, the global effect would be pretty minor compared to the local effect, but it would really enhance the feeling you're battling a GOD.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Things that affect the entire world rape most computers in the ass.

 

[Kenjister]

Things that affect the entire world rape most computers in the ass.

True, but he is a god, and should mean pretty much mean winning the game unless someone with the Godslayer turns up in time. Plus, it would significantly lower the end-game grind after the balance tips in your favor.
I personally think that Auric's Snowfall should at least 5 tiles in range, and have permanent effects.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

By computers, I mean, the physical things that you play FfH on.

As in, unless your rig can max crysis at 2500x1600 at 80 FPS, an ability that affects the entire world every turn would make you CtD constantly.

 

[Fafnir13]

Behold the power of Ulvin! Even your puny computer cannot contain him!

I wonder if it would be possible to have a reverse end of winter effect happen within a certain distance of Ulvin. Shouldn't cause horrible slowdown as it would only happen in one area. Would also be fun to watch as the lands around him grow colder and colder....

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

nice thread with lots of good ideas. I agree with most things WarKirby said.

actually, it seems like in every game that has superuber units buildable for a crapload of resources, they're rarely worth it in the end. if any of you has played Warlords Battlecry you should remember the Titans for example ( sure, it was a RTS and not a TBS but the point still stands ) . Meshabber and the Mithril golem used to be the same, but thankfully now they've been brought down to a more reasonable price. so I think Auric needs a boost cuz right now he's not really worth the hassle of going through permanent war with everybody and getting halved population.

so, stuff he could get :

1) true immortality UNLESS killed by Godslayer

2) be able to SEE that a unit is wielding the Godslayer, and fleeing

3) Godslayer should not be given to stronger non-Illians ( that is lame imho ) , but rather be found in a lair or something. that is, if you notice Auric is coming, you'd better get out and search for that sword! similar to how the AC incentives civs to get out and try to lower it, which is a GREAT mechanic.

4) lose the "incresed chance to defend stack" : he's already more than powerful enough that he's going to defend often. also, some other abilities couldn't hurt. a couple first strikes. first strike immunity. heal after combat and heal on move. immunity to fear. etc.

5) also, making his snowfall be a permanent terrain change, destroying roads etc. sounds like a good idea. I mean, he IS the god of stasis.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I played a sample game on emperor that aims to win domination with Auric Ascended.

Check out the attached file. It might give this conversation a context. It's not a very good game, mostly because of a very nasty earl war against the Sheaim and their large numbers of pyre zombies.

 

[PanzerWolf]

1) true immortality UNLESS killed by Godslayer

3) Godslayer should not be given to stronger non-Illians ( that is lame imho ) , but rather be found in a lair or something. that is, if you notice Auric is coming, you'd better get out and search for that sword! similar to how the AC incentives civs to get out and try to lower it, which is a GREAT mechanic.

What if the Illians finds the Godslayer? That can make it impossible to kill AA