Here in Finland every male has to do minimum 6 months of military service, there's a fake option "civil service", which is 13 months of forced labour with 15,80-21 euros salary per working day and free accomodation. Anyhow law doesn't say antyhing about war time obligations of civil servants. If you refuse from "civil service" you'll get jail for 6 months. There's a trial on this, but
everybody gets convicted.
and let them give a little something back to their countries.
That's a very typical argument pro conscription here too. I don't understand it: we already pay the taxes, everything we do recieve from our countries is payed by us, and we pay also for huge bureucracy, the salaries of people who decides whats good for us and what's not and much more. Government doesn't give us anything that isn't already ours.
It seems to me that especially 'authoritarian' people think countries to be superior to invinduals. They say that we should be thankful for all the good things we get from the state. But why in earth should I be thankful for something I have to pay for, and which I haven't asked for? It's like I would sell people things they don't want to buy, make them pay for them with a dread of violence, and finally tell them to be thankful.
That authoritarian thinking seems to be behind the basic stupidity of conscription. Nearly everybody says that military service can't be optional because there wouldn't be enough people defending the country when Russia attacks. I just don't understand why it is so important to secure existence of some government. If it's worth of defending, people will do it out of their own free will. If it isn't, let it perish. To force people to kill and get killed for something they don't believe in is just as much violence as is an invasion to other countries.
I think we should have it for young people (males and females) between 18-20, because it will teach them discipline
Sorry to say, but that sounds very authoritarian too. People learn too much "discipline" in schools already. Army is very oppressive. People working there use vulgar and offencive language. You only learn there to obey without questions and that you are a part of a machine, not a person of own value. That is of course the thing that authoritarian people find so good in discipline... Many my friends who went to army were quite depressed during and after it. It's kind of negation of humanity.
I didn't go to army, I was doing that "civil service" last year. I thought refusing that too, for pacifist reasons, but going to jail was far much worst in respect of freedom. To me the whole thing taught nothing but to hate government. And I really mean
hate. During couple last years I have experienced trips of parylyzing fury, to the extent that I have to take days off from studies. I'm on the brink to hold the government my enemy actually.
The worst thing is that there's no real communication with army. Reason and conversation isn't the way army works. When I speaked my mind to doctor, he just said "Oh well, I'll put you in b-class" (that means easier service), probably thinking that I just made these things up out of laziness.
