Traiano
Warlord
Explorers in North & South America....mmm...why?
Sounds like a quite bizarre move...while Africa is fine, of course...
Ijnavy's Scenarios on GEM
- Thread starter ijnavy
- Start date
Explorers in North & South America....mmm...why?
Sounds like a quite bizarre move...while Africa is fine, of course...
Traiano
Warlord
I give the scenario a solid A-.
My favorite map, the GEM, and my favorite historical period, the High Middles Ages.
It doesnt take much more to make it absolutely great (ergo A+):
- Fix the little historical inconsistencies, like add the Mongols, remove explorers from undiscovered continents, weaken the Bizantines (for historical realism) and the Song China (for game mechanics, so that they do not "win" every time).
- Customize Leader heads to make them more fitting (see Jibrail that is the quintessential out of place one, it ruins the flavour...for me at least!)
- Fix the religions (emphasis on this).
That said, I'm going to play as Venice!
My favorite map, the GEM, and my favorite historical period, the High Middles Ages.
It doesnt take much more to make it absolutely great (ergo A+):
- Fix the little historical inconsistencies, like add the Mongols, remove explorers from undiscovered continents, weaken the Bizantines (for historical realism) and the Song China (for game mechanics, so that they do not "win" every time).
- Customize Leader heads to make them more fitting (see Jibrail that is the quintessential out of place one, it ruins the flavour...for me at least!)
- Fix the religions (emphasis on this).
That said, I'm going to play as Venice!
Weakening (if not destroying) Song China is precisely what the Mongols should be doing - if they were in.
Traiano
Warlord
Play tested with Venice until 1450 AD.
Horrible game.
This civ is far too weak: the economy - that I expected to be strong as it is in the 1500 AD gem - is mediocre and military-wise Venice cannot attack its neighbor to expand: The Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantines are way too strong.
In other words, not really much room to do anything but wait to be absorbed by another civ.
In fact Venice itself risks to flip to the Holy Roman Empire quite early into the game.
Likewise when I managed to take Dyrrachium and Tunis (on game Number 3), both cities immediately flipped to the Norman Italy (Tunis) or Hungary (Dyrrachium).
I love this civ but firmly think it should get a better starting economy or more tech or at least a third city with decent borders on Crete or Rhodes.
Also, very very weird to trade maps in mid 1200 to see the americas fully explored by the english...
In conclusion, I really like the scenario.
However I think that some civs in Europe have no room to grow, and if both the military and the economic growth arent feasible options, I'm not sure it is very thrilling to play them...
Perhaps modifying the civs border to alter the balance might help a little bit, or perhaps even leave a few unclaimed squares to found cities or at least provide room to grow to avoid cities flip so quickly...
My two cents!
Horrible game.
This civ is far too weak: the economy - that I expected to be strong as it is in the 1500 AD gem - is mediocre and military-wise Venice cannot attack its neighbor to expand: The Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantines are way too strong.
In other words, not really much room to do anything but wait to be absorbed by another civ.
In fact Venice itself risks to flip to the Holy Roman Empire quite early into the game.
Likewise when I managed to take Dyrrachium and Tunis (on game Number 3), both cities immediately flipped to the Norman Italy (Tunis) or Hungary (Dyrrachium).
I love this civ but firmly think it should get a better starting economy or more tech or at least a third city with decent borders on Crete or Rhodes.
Also, very very weird to trade maps in mid 1200 to see the americas fully explored by the english...
In conclusion, I really like the scenario.
However I think that some civs in Europe have no room to grow, and if both the military and the economic growth arent feasible options, I'm not sure it is very thrilling to play them...
Perhaps modifying the civs border to alter the balance might help a little bit, or perhaps even leave a few unclaimed squares to found cities or at least provide room to grow to avoid cities flip so quickly...
My two cents!
Traiano
Warlord
I also noticed that Venice doesnt have a palace.
It is the only civ that starts without it...it is done on purpose?
It is the only civ that starts without it...it is done on purpose?
Traiano
Warlord
p.s. if played by an AI, Venice flips to the Holy Roman Empire before 1140AD.
It happened 3 times on 3.
It happened 3 times on 3.
Traiano
Warlord
Well, that would affect culture flipping...
Yeah...I guess that's an error and fixing it might solve the cultural city-flipping problem: it happens at the turn of 1120 AD, when played by an AI.
Traiano
Warlord
Playtested a long game (until 1750 AD) at Warlord, with Poland.
Please be aware I opened the WBS and removed the explorers in the Americas and gave Palace to Venice:
- Venice doesnt flip anymore to the Holy Roman Empire (it became its vassal in 1600AD).
However it doesnt develop and keeps the two starting settlers within the capital for the whole game.
- The Reconquista was completed by France in 1700 AD.
It seems Castille & Aragona arent yet strong enough to take Cordoba and Lisbon on their own.
In my games the Reconquista usually takes place when Aragona or Castille become vassals of the Holy Roman Empire, that comes in and takes over.
Perhaps you can move the Almoravids capital to Fez or Casablanca so that Cordoba will be less well defended and more eager to fall?
- Huge crusades against the Kiev Rus (1400 AD) - that capitulated and became a vassal of the Holy Roman Empire - and against the Seljuks (1550 AD).
The Seljuks lost Antioch, Jerusalem, Manzikert, Ari, Baghdad to the Holy Roman and Kiev Rus.
- The new Jing dinasty perfectly counters the Song now.
They two civs are nearly equal in power.
This balancing attempt worked out fine: now Huizong doesnt take over the Far East as before, also thanks to the add of Korea - that did grow to moderate power.
- The Bizantines are leading in score.
However they are not the most powerful civ (The Holy Roman Empire will maul them, if they ended up at war).
I noticed the bizantines keep enforcing their isolationist policy and never lose nor conquer cities from the Turks, or other civs.
They enjoy the status quo and their position and go on with their 8-9 starting well advanced cities for the whole game.
- Leading civs:
Holy Roman Empire (4 vassals: Castille, Kiev Rus, Venice and, for a bit, also the Seljuks)
Bizantines (vassal: Khmer and Ethiopia. Then Ethiopia switched to Al-Amir)
Song
Jing
France (vassal: Toulouse)
Me - Poland (vassal: Hungary)
Let me know what you plan to edit.
Also, perhaps you can add the mongols without the camp, just as a major civ?
Last but not least, rather than do a 1300AD (that frankly might end up being very similar to the existing 1100 AD or 1500 AD on GEM) ever thought about doing an ancient scenario (Romans, Egypt, Persia, Greece) on GEM, like around 500 BC?
I would love to see that complexity of diplomatic relationships on a setting that is BC.
Thanks!
Please be aware I opened the WBS and removed the explorers in the Americas and gave Palace to Venice:
- Venice doesnt flip anymore to the Holy Roman Empire (it became its vassal in 1600AD).
However it doesnt develop and keeps the two starting settlers within the capital for the whole game.
- The Reconquista was completed by France in 1700 AD.
It seems Castille & Aragona arent yet strong enough to take Cordoba and Lisbon on their own.
In my games the Reconquista usually takes place when Aragona or Castille become vassals of the Holy Roman Empire, that comes in and takes over.
Perhaps you can move the Almoravids capital to Fez or Casablanca so that Cordoba will be less well defended and more eager to fall?
- Huge crusades against the Kiev Rus (1400 AD) - that capitulated and became a vassal of the Holy Roman Empire - and against the Seljuks (1550 AD).
The Seljuks lost Antioch, Jerusalem, Manzikert, Ari, Baghdad to the Holy Roman and Kiev Rus.
- The new Jing dinasty perfectly counters the Song now.
They two civs are nearly equal in power.
This balancing attempt worked out fine: now Huizong doesnt take over the Far East as before, also thanks to the add of Korea - that did grow to moderate power.
- The Bizantines are leading in score.
However they are not the most powerful civ (The Holy Roman Empire will maul them, if they ended up at war).
I noticed the bizantines keep enforcing their isolationist policy and never lose nor conquer cities from the Turks, or other civs.
They enjoy the status quo and their position and go on with their 8-9 starting well advanced cities for the whole game.
- Leading civs:
Holy Roman Empire (4 vassals: Castille, Kiev Rus, Venice and, for a bit, also the Seljuks)
Bizantines (vassal: Khmer and Ethiopia. Then Ethiopia switched to Al-Amir)
Song
Jing
France (vassal: Toulouse)
Me - Poland (vassal: Hungary)
Let me know what you plan to edit.
Also, perhaps you can add the mongols without the camp, just as a major civ?
Last but not least, rather than do a 1300AD (that frankly might end up being very similar to the existing 1100 AD or 1500 AD on GEM) ever thought about doing an ancient scenario (Romans, Egypt, Persia, Greece) on GEM, like around 500 BC?
I would love to see that complexity of diplomatic relationships on a setting that is BC.
Thanks!
Good for you!
Basically then, Spain is too weak, I should think.
I'm quoting in full, but am actually only concerned with the HRE: it might need breaking up. (The Empire as such wasn't a powerful force; it was mostly used by whichever principality managed to get elected Emperor to advance its own goals - which in the end turned out to profit Austria the most.) Just a suggestion, though.
The Mongol camp is now available as a Mod Comp.
Traiano
Warlord
I'm quoting in full, but am actually only concerned with the HRE: it might need breaking up. (The Empire as such wasn't a powerful force; it was mostly used by whichever principality managed to get elected Emperor to advance its own goals - which in the end turned out to profit Austria the most.) Just a suggestion, though.
I agree, breaking up the HRE up might help to balance the game (maybe taking off 1-2 cities will suffice):
1) Perhaps handing Arles (Genoa) to Venice (Venice with 3 cities should be playable) or
2) Adding the Papal State civ (losing Rome would be huge for their cultural appeal), or
3) Handing 1 HRE city to Bohemia.
I agree, breaking up the HRE up might help to balance the game (maybe taking off 1-2 cities will suffice):
1) Perhaps handing Arles (Genoa) to Venice (Venice with 3 cities should be playable) or
2) Adding the Papal State civ (losing Rome would be huge for their cultural appeal), or
3) Handing 1 HRE city to Bohemia.
ijnavy
Czar
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2008
- Messages
- 405
Traiano
Warlord
Change-wise, what I would suggest to finally complete this great scenario, is:
- Rename Dyrrachium, Durazzo, and hand it to Venice.
Venice with a palace, plus Zara and Durazzo should be fine and would get decent control of the adriatic sea.
It would also weaken a bit the Byzantines that lose one city (they needs to get involved into wars with Seljuks and Fatimids, somehow).
- Move the Almoravids Capital to Africa, weaken Cordoba and Lisbon, so that the Reconquista might be completed by 1500 AD, by either Castille or Aragona and not by a foreign power (France or HRE).
- Make Arles a barbarian city ("saracens" pirates had hideouts along the coast mid 900 AD) so that Toulouse, the Norman Italy or Venice can actually expand and the game can diversify.
- Leave Rome in the hands of the HRE, UNLESS, you feel like adding another civ for the Papal State.
- Add the Mongols (with or without camp).
- Remove explorers from the Americas.
FYI, I noticed that also leaving the explorers in the new world, the ai doesnt go to fund over there.
Even after they trade a world maps with me (and I explored north america).
In conclusion, it is important to give civs that start with just 2 cities the opportunity to quickly/easily get a 3rd one (Bohemia got Wineta, Aragon & Castille should have Cordoba and Lisbon, Venice might start with 3, or aim for Arles together with Toulouse).
Especially taking into account that the the AI doesnt found cities on island of 1-2 squares, even though it is the only way to use a settler.
- Fix the Religious icons.
Then it would be A+
- Rename Dyrrachium, Durazzo, and hand it to Venice.
Venice with a palace, plus Zara and Durazzo should be fine and would get decent control of the adriatic sea.
It would also weaken a bit the Byzantines that lose one city (they needs to get involved into wars with Seljuks and Fatimids, somehow).
- Move the Almoravids Capital to Africa, weaken Cordoba and Lisbon, so that the Reconquista might be completed by 1500 AD, by either Castille or Aragona and not by a foreign power (France or HRE).
- Make Arles a barbarian city ("saracens" pirates had hideouts along the coast mid 900 AD) so that Toulouse, the Norman Italy or Venice can actually expand and the game can diversify.
- Leave Rome in the hands of the HRE, UNLESS, you feel like adding another civ for the Papal State.
- Add the Mongols (with or without camp).
- Remove explorers from the Americas.
FYI, I noticed that also leaving the explorers in the new world, the ai doesnt go to fund over there.
Even after they trade a world maps with me (and I explored north america).
In conclusion, it is important to give civs that start with just 2 cities the opportunity to quickly/easily get a 3rd one (Bohemia got Wineta, Aragon & Castille should have Cordoba and Lisbon, Venice might start with 3, or aim for Arles together with Toulouse).
Especially taking into account that the the AI doesnt found cities on island of 1-2 squares, even though it is the only way to use a settler.
- Fix the Religious icons.
Then it would be A+
Traiano
Warlord
GO MONGOLS!!!
For those interested: the movie, MONGOL, by Sergei Bodrov - that was nominated for an academy award this year - should be in theatres in the US with limited release.
Not sure about Europe yet.
Very stylish.
Teaser on youtube.
Maybe it is inspirational!
Fierabras
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,120
Thanks for the tip. Those movie posters would look nice as a Civ opening menu screen background
http://www.mongolmovie.com/
Ok, I watched the trailer and now I just have to convert the Mongol mounted swordsman
http://www.mongolmovie.com/
Ok, I watched the trailer and now I just have to convert the Mongol mounted swordsman
ijnavy
Czar
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2008
- Messages
- 405
I have a list of the civs for 1300 AD on GEM. If you have any suggestions of who to add and take away.
Portugal
Castile
France
England
Austria
Luxembourg dynasty
Wittelsbach dynasty
Scandinavia
Venice
Papal States
Hungary
Poland-Lithuania
Moscow
Golden Horde
Ottoman
Marinids
Sultanate of Egypt
Ilkhanate empire
Delhi Sultanate
Bahmani Sultanate
Vijayangar
Chagatai
Khmer
Yuan dynasty
Japan
Timur
Aztec
Ethiopia
Portugal
Castile
France
England
Austria
Luxembourg dynasty
Wittelsbach dynasty
Scandinavia
Venice
Papal States
Hungary
Poland-Lithuania
Moscow
Golden Horde
Ottoman
Marinids
Sultanate of Egypt
Ilkhanate empire
Delhi Sultanate
Bahmani Sultanate
Vijayangar
Chagatai
Khmer
Yuan dynasty
Japan
Timur
Aztec
Ethiopia
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