im born to make you happy : happiness issue (domination, huge map, 19 civ)

[Makaz]

It is far better to gift obsolete units to CS than disbanding them

Interesting way of doing it, guess I will have to try.

Do you have any indication on how much a scout; a worker or a rifleman would earn you as influence ?

Are we reaching a point where it is better to rushbuy units and gift them rather than paying cs straight away ?

 

[r_rolo1]

I don't have the numbers in my head atm , but i don't think that it will be better to rushbuy + gift instead of simply give the cash ...

What you can do is to get those outdated units you get sometimes from militaristic CS and use them to bribe other CS ( or even to bribe the militaristic CS itself ).

 

[dexters]

I think happiness is not balanced at the moment.

The centralized happiness system is innovative and I want them to keep it; but there's a death spiral for a lot of players

- build happiness buildings
- increasing cost of happiness buildings leads to lower gold income
- build commerce buildings at the expense of happiness ones

All the while cities are whining for luxuries the player may not even see on their map (ie: in the fog of war).

The unhappiness penalty for city growth seems to be the culprit. You can have a stretch of stable happiness then as soon as you ally a maritime civ ans cities grow, your happiness plummets.

In civ3, we had the pollution whack-a-mole, in civ5, it seems like we have the happiness whack-a-mole deathspiral.

I much preferred polution at this rate. at least its clear what you need to do.

Managing happiness in Civ5 is a challenge at the best of times because a lot of the information you need that isn't on the highest level is hidden from you.

 

[H4run]

wow i just read this thread there are many valueble tips, the one most i catching is "dont build road on the capital city", and thx for the detail calculation on happiness its really turn off all the foggy thing inside my head on how to chop this problem.

Ok im going to report my progress,

im going well following the instruction from Kaltorak. First i follow his idea : disbanding worker.

Its instanly give me 8gpt and 20g in my pocket, such a relive.... But still i have a problem in gpt, its only give me 30 gpt margin or so, from -100 to -70gpt, and i only got 1k left on my cash. So i create market and bank in all of my city since i think it wouldnt hurt because it only cost tools. And i build several happy building for my bad temper citizen.

After several turn, while im preparing my army (not producing but relocating) to fight persia (i want dissband them but i feel un-easy if they go waste just like that so i gather them into battle) a great person pop up, look a scientist! But i need money, so i consume him to start my golden age, the result i got +100 gpt.

I contact Darius, try to bargain on some trade giving him all of my gpt and resource (luxury+strategic at all quantity), then he give me 4k, after i got what i need to survive for my civilization, i go to war (i read this trick just in other thread just yesterday, and it work, i feel a bit unfair about it but well i done it, what do u think? is it ok? i hope they fix this bugs)

After i go to war, im focusing on releasing city states and razing his building, the results after that i got more resource in some capital state and other city, and a few of my happy building are already being build, i got 20 happiness. After the war with persia, i go on with tokugawa with the exact strategy, i once reach 100 gpt and 18 happiness, it awesome. After finishing my war with tokugawa, waiting for few city that now being raze by my army, postwar my happiness is a bit down 2 unhappy, but yeah it realy dont mean a problem, and i got 300 gpt from my golden age. But the war goes interesting at the start, but begining brutal and less interesting at the middle, and boring at the closure. In the middle, it goes on shoot and raze in the middle, and at the end my opponent are producing billion of worker, that stupid, and i just go siege the city and raze, brutal and boring, seem chaotic and unstructure, my army goes seperate here and there hard to gather them back.

So the results, i win this game so far and im ready to advance in king level in the next new game (thx to u all i chop it only in hours) with more advance strategy that i gather from this room :

-i will try to focus each city with special capability (really really spessific) so i dont waste military building on commerce city etc, and i can safe lots of cash.

- i will try to use Piety instead rationalism, because i felt, in the end game, tech really mean nothing, and in my case i overlaping my opponent to much in tech but i cant really produce the high tech unit because the unbalance in happiness issue and economic issue. And 20% reduce in happiness is really what i want, it can give me 40 head of happy people for my country.

- In my early game, i do build road effiecenly but i connect it to all my city, it end up bit blunder, in the next game i try to more efficient the road by not connecting my city to the capital if the city already settle beside the ocean, and its really good idea. But btw, is it still work if my capital are not settle by the ocean? i just wonder if it still can connect the trade route.

- Yap, i still got a habbit from the early civilization game, i build what i plan on the city i settle or capture, like i start building forge in production city, or theater in cultural city, but now i will first settle the happiness foundation and commerce before i expand my city into the form that i want.

- I will... raze more city i hate it but i got no choice, puppet make the building and population uncontrol (by info when "i love the king day" they are more focus in evolving population) while annex make it produce more so yeah, play bit brutal, kick and rush, and its really not my style but what ever, i have no choice

i really want to say thx to all of u that contribute. This game becoming less : and more

i will try to sumarize this tips and trick and post in new thread. Or an add at the front page so other with similiar problem like me can read it and avoid reposting.

Thank you.

i wait for another genius tips from all of u.

 

[delra]

My last game as Egypt I rush-conquered my continent and then gave my whole army to Warsaw who was struggling against Japanese on another island. Guess what, they razed three cities before they finally peaced out. ;-)

So yea, do give units.

And about roads, they shouldn't be a priority until you have like 6-8 dudes a city.

 

[vranasm]

Well for me what works up to King is basically:

- TP spam (on hills, on river, everywhere), in the early game hapiness limits your growth (no need for farms) and when you finally can grow, buying food from maritime CS is better (you can even fulfill their quests!)

- build only monument, market, (mint where available), library, bank, uni in cities, since you will have good cashflow you can wage what is better to buy at which point.

- -25% rush buy costs from commerce SP, Big ben from econ offer great synergy bringing price of rush buy really low... monument for 190gold etc.

 

[H4run]

My last game as Egypt I rush-conquered my continent and then gave my whole army to Warsaw who was struggling against Japanese on another island. Guess what, they razed three cities before they finally peaced out. ;-)

So yea, do give units.

And about roads, they shouldn't be a priority until you have like 6-8 dudes a city.

That is good idea haha i never give my city state a unit, and to be honest, i suffer bugs in this game. Im play domination victory only, and there are only 3 leader left for more to conquest, and in my estimation, its 99 percent work, they all easy opponent, but i cant finish this game because i cant declare war on French, it said "cannot declare war on french until the peace treaties expire" something like that, i check my global politic agreement and there are no treaties or agreement between me and french. I dont have any diplomacy act, and i declare war on him hundreds turn ago at the midieval age.

But there is something i can set to counter this bugs by reading your comment, there is a city state who engage war with Napoleon but they are far in the middle surround my napoleon borderland. Can i gift them a unit? and will it be appear inside their border land? i really wish they crush Paris so i can move out to other level.

or do other have similiar issue like me? how to fix this issue?

 

[player1 fanatic]

Im look at persia, they are huger nation then me but they have more then 100 capital per turn with more then 30k gold, "O darius what is thee economical secret?"

AI cheats a lot for unit maintenance (in almost all difficulties). Which wouldn't be an issue if units didn't start to cost way too much to maintain in later game.

 

[Makaz]

i will try to use Piety instead rationalism, because i felt, in the end game, tech really mean nothing, and in my case i overlaping my opponent to much in tech but i cant really produce the high tech unit because the unbalance in happiness issue and economic issue. And 20% reduce in happiness is really what i want, it can give me 40 head of happy people for my country.

I do use that too and if it works till emperor; immortal is more a challenge.

In immortal some AI tend to absorb each other at an incredible rate leading to the emergence of great great empire which is fine until you realise that tech rate and unit spamming for AI purely depends on their number of city (not improvements, not population, not buildings, not happiness). I hear people beat deity/immortal by ignoring happiness, tp spamming to rushbuy horesmen and rationalism to speed up tech (+2 science per tp) in order to match the spam of technologically advanced troops from AI. Although it sounds viable, it sounds like a boring abuse of game mechanics to me so I tend to try and go the hard way which fails usually

 

[H4run]

I do use that too and if it works till emperor; immortal is more a challenge.

In immortal some AI tend to absorb each other at an incredible rate leading to the emergence of great great empire which is fine until you realise that tech rate and unit spamming for AI purely depends on their number of city (not improvements, not population, not buildings, not happiness). I hear people beat deity/immortal by ignoring happiness, tp spamming to rushbuy horesmen and rationalism to speed up tech (+2 science per tp) in order to match the spam of technologically advanced troops from AI. Although it sounds viable, it sounds like a boring abuse of game mechanics to me so I tend to try and go the hard way which fails usually

in this game i try to slingshot the tech with rationalism that is why i choose it, i havent read this forum but when i read the detail of social policy i know what can i do with this thing.

Hence i leap so far iin the state that i can build artilery. But i i take a wrong movement, artilery at that time are cost TONS of tools, it cost 450 tools or so i forgot Makaz, but in that time it cost equal to building a wonder, what a pain. So im thinking to slingshot the tech, and goes into tech that i can build factory then outnumber them. But like u said, it will end up like a brutal wargame, more brutal than most idiotic dash and slash game, less of economical strategy, less of diplomatic strategy, and less in combat tactic, u dont need any of them just send the orc to eat flesh and plunder, what a zombie.

Yep, i just try the elegan one in my next game, play in piety civilization. And im in horse tactic to avoid ai civ to evolving and spamming in city number. If they release the balance in their next patch, i will try the slingshot on industry.

 

[Makaz]

Don't build artilleries.

Build early catapults / trebs and upgrade them to cannon then artilleries.

 

[kaltorak]

Don't build artilleries.

Build early catapults / trebs and upgrade them to cannon then artilleries.

Buying/building lower tech units and then upgrading is indeed cheaper. But if you buy them only for the future, without needing the right now, the maintenance you pay until you finally use them probably isn't worth anymore.

 

[Cannes]

Look in the mods section of the forums. You're not the only ones who feel that there are some serious issues with the current version of Civ and have already made lots of small changes to better balance buildings/wonders/CS and more!

 

[R3dKnight]

First, don't gift units unless the CS really needs it. Disbanding it in your territory will yield 20 gold return. So make use of all the captured workers during those wars by converting them to cash when there's not much land to improve.

To handle happiness, you have to keep a breathing space that keep the unhappiness from hitting -10 or lower. Hitting -10 will severely halt your war machine with 33% penalty to strength and productivity will drop. Someone already mentioned state policies to help a little with unhappiness, not a bad idea to follow. But there's more:

Puppet cities might reduce the unhappiness, but will create more trouble in the long run. The main cause is being its stupid tendency to build armory, barracks and other buildings that costs maintenance but contribute absolutely nothing to the economy while the unhappy population remain angry. Consider razing the city to the ground and resettle it if you like the resources around it. It's much faster than waiting for a Courthouse. Or if you notice they're actually building happy structures like Circus and Theater on their own, assist them by improving production around its tile. Another idea is to place trading posts around that city to pay their maintenance and slow down their population growth - the main cause of unhappiness.

Always puppet first, then check how many turns it'll take to get productive. Once the rioting is over, Annex if you want without taking the silly unhappiness hit.

The earliest way to counter unhappiness is luxury resources, each brings 5 happy points. So grab as many as possible by trading with the AI, or tribute 500 gold to city states. Always check what you need and what is available. Every little bit helps.

Should you hit a Golden Age sometime during the game, try to construct buildings that improve productivity like workshops / wind mills / factory to make things easier in the future.

That's all about I can say about the happiness issue really. I haven't play huge games, but on Standard I noticed higher level of state policies combined will net me a good enough happiness points for my large to keep going on. These are some of the possible combo:

Early Game
Piety - Connection to Capital +1 Happy, 20% off unhappy people in non-occupied cities.
Honor - Garrison in each city +1 Happy

Mid to Late Game
Autocracy - reduced unhappiness in annexed cities.
Communist State - 50% reduced unhappiness from total city numbers.

 

[H4run]

Early Game
Piety - Connection to Capital +1 Happy, 20% off unhappy people in non-occupied cities.
Honor - Garrison in each city +1 Happy

Mid to Late Game
Autocracy - reduced unhappiness in annexed cities.
Communist State - 50% reduced unhappiness from total city numbers.

yeah this is exactly what i need, autocracy and communist they got the best perk in social policy. Reduce unit maintence, reduce occupied unhappy, everything. I think im gonna combine all of this perk

Ty Redknight, after writing this post i gonna open my pc, relaxing from my daily life. i really appreciate your comment.

@Makaz : no, i think im gonna go your way try to play it and graduating my kingdom step by step, for awhile no more leaping and unbalance stuff, i think reading your comment there seem more enjoyable moment there, more stable and order. In my earlier civ i always gone for a slingshot, oracle for alphabet, and focusing on internet project gapping my foe tech, i think i going out for something new now. for the first time.

@Cannes : im already download it is it the one who cut the production for 20 percent? annable workshop and all thing? its really a nice add, its even can be consider as a patch that fix civ 5 bugs. but i read the comment there seems some bugs on that mod, it do work fine with u Cannes?

 

[aguds]

Start most of your new settlements with a monument early in the game, it will give you policies in time for your expansion. And annex only one city at a time, and preferably have cash for a courthouse when you do.

 

[H4run]

just finishing my King Game, with all of your recomendation, except, i dont go with honor SP, it do have a great perk but it cost to much and i need some strengh to defend my city. So again im using tradition.

I close the game in King DIfficulty, on huge maps, 19 civ, domination victory, i use Songhai (ah i love them so much just know). I get hundreds of city, conquer about 4 continent and make it full of city, building them all the happy building and counter the maintenece with harbor, population, birth control all my city have avarage population below 15. And i get 45 for my happiness and 200 gpt.

SP :

Tradition : only take the one who get 33% bonus fighting on our ownland.
Piety : Take them all
Autocracy : half unhappy from occupied city. And let several other perk uncheck
Communism : Half unhappy from number of city

Wonder : Forbiden Palace, Eifel Tower.

Results : Happy ending.

Now moving on my emperor difficulty. Thx to all of u, this game is far more interesting since then.

Thx Aguds, now im building monument each time i found a city, and also mud mosque.

 

[g++]

If you are in the modern era and already annexed a bunch of cities which it kind of sounds like you are the unhappiness is coming from straight population. The best way to get rid of that in my experience is to adopt freedom dont even get a policy just adopt it and then cram all your buildings full of specialists for half unhappiness. A modern city will lose like 5 unhappiness each if you do this. In an empire of 10-20 cities its possible to shoot from -unhappiness straight to +100. You will get +money +science -food -hapiness. Let them starve if you have too use the money you get from cramming banks and markets with specialists to buy off maritime city states to reboot your growth and spam trading posts. If you build the statue of liberty you dont really even need to work tiles anymore.

 

[}{ELL/\/()]

I thought I recalled seeing an early sneak peek where you were able to like create puppets/colonies from cities that even you founded or conquered whenever you wanted not just when you took them over. Like you could go build a colony up on another continent and grant it independence or something? Did they take that out or was I mistaken?