1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Immortal University 95 - Bismarck

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by klonoklown, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. Dubioza

    Dubioza Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Croatia
    Congrats to everyone that won this map!

    I tried to level up to Immortal, but I think I chose wrong map for it.
    Spoiler :
    Reading your Imm games now, I think I did quite alright - except I shouldn't have settled 2nd city on the stone. Teched AH - TW - BW, built worker - warrior - settler @ size 3 but when settler was out, warrior was sent earlier to bust around the stone and settler followed him 1 turn before BW, so I didn't dare to send him north all alone to get copper.

    At turn 30 barbs were everywhere, tried to hurry another settler but then I realized capitol' borders will expand to copper even sooner - so I built like 12 warriors, they were dropping like flies. Teched Agri - Pott, but couldn't finish mining & connecting copper due to barbs. At turn 50 they pillaged everything while I managed to settle 2N of capitol and to finally get 1st axe.

    But by then I lost 8 warriors and stone city while killed 6 archers & 5 warriors I think. And then on top of that Wang built GWall. :D

    I hate quitting, but for first Immortal game that's a bit too bad start.

    No screens this time, I deleted everything instantly :D

    Are these "barb turns" standard on Immortal? At T30 animals are gone (or almost gone, but mostly replaced by regular units) and at T50 they're entering you borders?
     
  2. pepe26

    pepe26 Lacrosse Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,360
    Location:
    Berlin
    what the f*ck is wrong with those barb on this map?!?!? they killed me 5 tims in a row and i was rushing BW and axes real hard........................
     
  3. pepe26

    pepe26 Lacrosse Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,360
    Location:
    Berlin
    ive never seen more bullsh*t going on than on this map, ffs... unbelievable
     
  4. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,166
    Location:
    Cantaloupe Island
    This is Inland Sea. Try more of them: barbs are always brutal and early survival is difficult, indeed.
     
  5. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,683
    Played this with the immortal starting save.

    I'm recording this, so I won't give too much detail in case the new setup turns out decently, however

    Spoiler :


    My shoddy micro almost cost me. I refused a demand from SB just as I was getting rifles and he started plotting. Problem is he's protective and had grenadiers. I managed to take a city w/o heavy losses but the next 2 were on hills with 12+ units and 5 or so being grens...which while not getting their anti-rifle bonuses on defense would nevertheless be murder to attack with 60% defenses on hills. I got peace...BARELY capping Wang before he got rifles as a result (he didn't pick up mil sci).

    I went after SB with rifle/cannon and that went much better, though he didn't fold until I grabbed cahokia. Sury was #1 in land/pop and easily held off Monty + cap vassal gandhi with his great land, but he went culture...pre rifling culture. His #3 city had 30k culture when I took it with rifle/cannon. I killed gobs and gobs of units and had 1200 war weariness due to his SoZ, but didn't take much in the way of losses.

    Fighting monty/gandhi was more interesting. I still had rifle/cannon, and brokered to get airships. Those guys were at war with charlie but had infantry, arty, machine guns. Monty took peace with charlie just after I declared...this wasn't an easy battle. Still, airships take a surprising edge off top defenders and war xp = great generals = heroic epic city spitting CR III cannon. A few times thanks to airships I had 64% odds first battle with cannons. I bribed charlie back into the war using gold (way too far behind in tech to use tech) and got monty + gandhi to cap after taking aztec capitol. I did get arty tech midway through the way but only got a couple to the front before winning it.

    I'm obviously in cleanup mode now, with only charlie left. I'm backwards and charlie will probably have tanks in the very near future, but while I only have rifle/cannon/airship with 10 arty or so, I do have ~200 rifles and a ton of cannons, and thanks to vassal brokering I also can produce infantry now. It's just a matter of how quickly charlie gives up...looking at a late 1800's finish most likely.

     
  6. Dubioza

    Dubioza Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Croatia
    Spoiler :
    Grrr :suicide:

    I guess I'm still too much of a rookie to beat this on Immortal. In second try I played to ~1000 AD, capped Wang (just in time we both got Feud; Charly DoW'd him before me, but didn't have Feud, so I grabbed the opportunity) and then broke my teeth on SB, on freaking 4 promotion units. Took 2 of his cities and still had decent stack left, but then I had to go around the river to 3rd city (tried once over the river and lost everything) and he hit me on the open and still killed everything - I don't know where he got all those units, his stack tripled in 3-4 turns I needed to get around.

    No screens again, no saves, in rage I deleted everything - I'm kinda sorry now, I was finishing Edu and I'm sure I could've got to Lib first. I bulbed MC, Philo & Edu, got 'mids & TGLib. I'm sure it was winnable situation, had 13 (2 barb) + 2 SB's cities, Monty & Gandhi were at war long time, Surya was only one strong. Gandhi was wonder spamming and got hindu AP - and I think here I messed up - decided to spread it and to build monasteries & temples instead of building units.

    Ohh well, I'll play it on Emperor. And wait for some easier map for Immortal.
     
  7. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    428
    Imm until 400 AD

    Spoiler :

    Intense game, not by action, but how it has developed. Small margins that so far hasn't gone against me much.
    Just the kind of start I hate. You have no commerce at all close by and you are forced to tech AH right away. Even with rthe stone and the marble you won't have much use for them early on as you won't get them up an running in time for failgold.
    Which is very important in this game as there is no other source. Sh went 2700 BC which I found very early and the GW went 1300 BC which was very late. Didn't bother with the Oracle as I couldn't risk it with my slow tech rate. And of course Gandhi gets it 900 BC...
    Went BW/Ag/wheel/pottery/masonry early on. Settled 2nd city by the copper/marble/corn. At the time the stupid AI's had 3-4 cities. Well, i delayed my axes to get out granaries 1st, but that almost cost me as the barbs were running riot. Won a couple of warriors fights at 55% to avoid pillaging. Settled 3rd city by the stone(not on it which is probably more optimal but it hurts my eyes). This had me limping towards writing and i pumped out some axes as I had nothing better to build. Hooked the stone and quickly chopped out the mids a bit late(900 BC). This helped me alot as the is very little happiness resources i noticed. Well, I had to go for Aesth to get back in the tech rate but I had absolutely no tech going. My axes came to the rescue as i went on a barb killing spree taking over 3 cities and earning 160 gold. This got me to Aesth so i could get alpha. problem was it was already 300 BC and this game the Ai has been teching fast(even SB had alpha) so I just barely got the techs I needed. Then stupid WK wouldn't trade Monarchy for math and I was just breaking even so i couldn't put hammers into math :mad:.
    Everyone went to around 10 cities each and that is where most are.
    Most of the game has been about putting up farms to help the cities grow and to put cities to block the AI. Stupid WK went just past my border to the south and settled on the desert copper. There is nothing there besides desert hills and crap!
    The religious picture was a bit tricky and the diplo. gandhi founded buddism, Sb Hindu and the Sury founded judaism. Gandhi who I thought would be hated by everyone sent missionaries to Monty, Charlie which made me annoyed as the would prevent wars which i had hoped would occur. WK also got buddism which made it hard for me as one close neighbour was hindu and one buddism. I didn't convert at 1st. Was starting to get way behind and Gandhi would now could tech undisturbed was starting to get out of hand. He built the Ap 1 AD! The same AP saved me some trouble though :)
    The faildgold from the parth gets me to currency and I can pick up Calendar and math.
    Also gets me lit. So I start to build MoM and TGL asap and chop out TGL quickly as other Ai's had lit. Which I got :)
    All while building woners a red fist show up by Wk and know it can only be me. I quickly convert to buddism, but too late...
    He dows and thankfully I still have around 10 axes and some spears rdy. 2 turns into the war and the Ap vote comes up and the war is over :)
    I hope can get him to pleased to avoid a dow in the future. Meanwhile SB has been making demands all the time and he isn't becoming happier...
    Also at 200 AD Charlie finally dows Gandhi(who is the leader and only one with feu). Hopefully it will slow him down. And at the same time Sury has converted monty so gandhi will probably be dogpiled. Good for him he got LBs. And at 300 AD i get music on the exact same turn as gandhi :D
    350 AD Mom is built and at 380 AD I get a GE who I don't even know what to do with. Also get a GS soon.
    My plan is to go into OR as soon as i get beu so I can convert my land into buddism as only 2 out of 10 cities has it. Then get paper and use my GS to bulb edu. Then use my GE for the Taj. All while avoiding to get dowed by SB or WK. I have got 10 cities peacefully and still can build 2-3 more. I blocked both Wk and Sb aggressivly so Wk is kina screwed with only 7 cities. Sb has 10-111 cities but he is a slow techer.
    Monty is far from me and a slow techer so unless he cap gandhi he won't be a big problem I hope. Sury is a problem but he is alone in judaism, well, with monty now.
    Charlie is the biggest threat long term I guess. He is big, 11 cities, can cap Gandhi and
    Wk might peacevassal to him....
    Which would be very bad for me.
     
  8. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    428
    until 1430 AD

    Spoiler :

    Well, i did spread buddism to all my cities which turned out to be 13 in the end.
    ugh, Sb is really annoying. Everything went nicely along and I got edu long before anyone else. took MT with lib and went for rifling as cuirs vs Sb is a big no as his LB will eat your cuirs, esp on a hill. Well, no matter i was way ahead in tech and when i got rifling in noone had MT or RP. Before Sury had demanded 400 gold and I had told him to do one as him and SB hated eachother and wouldn't open borders this any time soon. The red fist did pop up though
    Then SB demands 300 gold and I tell him to do one as i was whipping out an army and having some waiting for the upgrade. The red fist came up nonetheless.
    Then something i thought was good happened. Sury dowed SB :)
    hello, Mr backstab...
    Waited a while until I had 40 cavs(overkill perhaps) then dowed SB. My 9 exp cavs got 27% odds vs his LB's so good thing there wasn't too many defending.
    Then Sury bribes in monty into the war and Sb was in big trouble.
    Sury took one city but not much else happened.
    I took 1, then 2, 3 and so on until I stod ready to take his capitol. He had 5 cities left as I had taken 4 from him. Then Monty takes his 2nd city and SB caps to him right away. Well, short to say SB had just sealed his fate. I dowed Monty right away as he still had no rifling. took Sb's capitol and was about to move on. Then the next turn i double move my cavs out of the city to take SB's next 2 cities only to see the I had just passed Monty's stack :rolleyes:
    Why not 1 move at a time. Well, that meant i had to let Monty take the city and then retake it. Which I did and whiped monty's stack out of the way. Did loose a few cavs as the rng like to screw me. then i went on to take 2 more of SB cities.
    So this is where I am now. A very long war where SB has 1 city left and i am up at Sury's border. once Monty's is gone i am in trouble as the Ai's will have rifling by then and i am going to sit with 50 outdated cavs. I will probaöy attack Gandhi if he doesn't
    have rifling then. I just hope monty doesn't bring in Sury against me too.
    Still an open game even if i have 20 cities.
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,683
    Archery is a pretty useful tech to get. Throw out a few spawnbust warriors while growing, then transition to archers just after 2nd city or so.

    Yes, it slows you down and that sucks, but it's the safe opening generally.
     
  10. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,437
    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    biggest problem with them is that they are not proactive and you will be pillaged to stoneage...

    I remember one IU game from previous host (omg can't remember now the nick, was it habitus?) on inland sea where I used archers as defense while others went for impis and I defensively killed like tripple the amount of units then everyone else, just because I couldn't move front to barbs and was forced into my lands.

    Inland sea is hell with barbs, don't like the mapscript much if not generated with more AI's to compensate for more land.
     
  11. Dubioza

    Dubioza Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Croatia
    Exactly that happened to me, only with warriors - axes combo. Restarted on Emp now, OMG it feels like breeze vs. Imm.
     
  12. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,683
    Spawnbust net them on hills or forest, but not hill forests because the barbs won't attack that. Warriors can go on forest/hills but archers are "too stronk"

    Barbs took a mild amount of planning on this map but I maybe had 1 tile pillaged and maybe lost 1 warrior to them? I'm not sure I even lost that.

    This is nothing like huge/mara. The only really challenging part of this map is the :commerce: pitfall early game, unless something flukey happens with the AI.

    I'm going to see if the videos I recorded for this are postable.
     
  13. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    428
    Imm 1620 Ad Conquest

    Spoiler :

    Well, things went downhill from were I last were.
    SB got whiped out and my plan was to make peace with Monty and take out Sury while my peace treaty was active so I couldn't be bribed on by Sury.
    But 1st for good mesure I took out Monty's 2nd superstack so he wouldn't have them next time... After that and taking 2 of his Sb cities I made peace and dowed Sury. That stupid idiot had teched Sci Meth and Communism instead of rifling and MT so his huge stack just got obliterated 1st turn of the war. After that my 50 cavs had a field day in Sury land taking city after city. And just to add some cherry on the top WK peacevassaled to me during the war as he absolutely hated Sury and Monty. To be honest he could just have easily have peace vassaled to Charlie. Nice turn of events that Wk who once dowed me now came crawling. Charlie had once again dowed Gandhi and was crushing him and I was afraid he would vassal. But that idiot made peace just the turn he got rifling, which Gandhi still didn't have. Good for me.Well, Sury collected all he had left and put it in his capitol but just about when I was to attack he capped. No need to take out armnies of my future vassal :)
    Now 3 turns remained on my peace treaty with Monty so I had time to move my army to the front and heal up.
    Then Monty the fool dows Gandhi leaving his border totally exposed :)
    I just went in and took 2 cities right of the bat. Monty had still somehow managed to gather a huge stack even though I killed a ton in our last war but it still dwarfed my 60 cav army and he had no chance, rifling or no rifling. His capitil soon followed and he capped right thereafter. Gandhi got rifling but he had been ravaged by wars with both Monty and Charlie for a long time and after his small stack and 2 cities fell he capped right away. Still only 60% of land so I was forced into a war with my buddy Charlie who I had been friendly with for a long time. He had 2 huge stack of 30 units each sitting in 2 of Gandhi's former cities but my huge stack just crushed him like a bug.Then Monty, Sury and Wk came in with their armies and Charlie's world collapsed like a deck of cards. No more cities were needed and Charlie saw the light and capped.
    A fun note...
    The stupid city WK settled inside my territory on the desert copper was gifted to me before the end :D
    Still a tricky map with no commerce early on and the need to get to Sury before he gets rifling and starts being a ****.
     
  14. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,819
    Archery is usually a last resort for me. Conditions that will push me towards Archery:

    -Warriors alone are not a valid option (this is most of the time)

    -Start with Hunting or at least have Ivory or something that makes teching Hunting worthwhile. Having to research two useless techs for barb defense is a huge drag

    -Playing as Mansa Musa

    -Starting techs and land that are not conducive to getting BW or AH quickly. This can include really poor commerce that limits the number of techs that you can safely research before barbs invade.

    -BW and/or AH either reveal no strategic resources at all, or none that can be connected quickly enough

    Obviously the difficulty and the map script play into the decision as well. You have time to research 1 more tech on Immortal than on Deity, for instance.
     
  15. Dubioza

    Dubioza Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Croatia
    Finished it on Emperor, normal, nh/ne.

    1635 AD Conquest Victory!

    Spoiler :
    Browser failed (again!) after I wrote the whole thing, so in short:

    WK peacevassaled ~600 AD and pulled me into war with Charly, which capped ~1000 AD - I was ready to backstab SB as he was in war with Monty and his stack in nomansland, but now I had to move my stack half way across the map. When I was there, I capped Gandhi too, shortly after Charly ~1200 AD.

    Libbed Steel ~1300 AD, got back main stack while new one gathered near SB. Dow'd & capped him shorty after and continued toward Surya. This war lasted till ~1570 AD, had to took 6 of his cities - and it's a pain with his culture and my 1-move units. Had a stack of ~100 units, half of that cannons.

    Last but not least, Monty. Till now got Arti & AssemblyLine and was ready to have some fun. Dow'd him in 1620 AD, took 1 city and he capped in 1630 AD. Game over.

    Beginnings are crucial on both levels and you still have to do good on Emperor, but there is definitely huge gap between Emperor & Immortal, especially late game. I'll stick to Emperor for now, evetho I hate not being able to trade properly, instead of selling techs for change..
    Spoiler SomeScreens :
    Spoiler 1 :
    Spoiler 2 :
    Spoiler 3 :
    Spoiler 4 :
    Spoiler 5 :
    Spoiler 6 :
    Spoiler 7 :
    Spoiler 8 :
    Spoiler 9 :
    Thanks for the lots of fail-gold game!
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Tall German Joe

    Tall German Joe Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    514
    have you gotten a chance to upload these videos yet? i'd love to watch!
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,683
    I must fix the sound on them to some degree. I need a new head set and will order one shortly. Doing some research first. Right now my audio crackles.
     

Share This Page