Immortal University VII - Hannibal of Carthage

[Gliese 581]

JBossch

Spoiler :

Great job on not letting Cathy steal those cities.
Our games started out pretty similar but we've had some different diplomatic development and tech paths after Lib (I'm about to type in my next game post). The fact that you also got two religions and went for the AW is another difference, could pay of well in the industrial era.
Could you post your last save? I would very much like to see it. I think I ended my last game in almost the exact same year.

 

[patagonia]

Chapter 3: 1AD - 900AD (40 turns)

Spoiler :

This was a largely builder set, so not a huge amount to report.

I started off by working on improving relations with Sury:

Every little helps...

I then got a bit twitchy as he spent the bulk of the set in WHEOOHRN mode. I wasn't sure if that meant the request for CoL was a prelude to war, or whether he was gearing up to take on Toku, as I'd hoped, so I scraped a bit of an army together just in case - largely flanking2 Numidians to try and take out any siege I came across. With the prospect of facing Ballista elephants, they'd need all the withdrawal chance they could get.

Fortunately, Sury flipped out of WHEOOHRN mode towards the end of the set, but I don't currently have enough to offer to bribe him into war against Japan.

I popped a GS for the obligatory philosophy bulb and have been able to pick up feudalism and engineering for it, so the tech situation doesn't look too bad at the moment:

I'd be surprised if Liberalism's an option though (UoS has just gone on the other continent); I should have been farming GS much more aggressively if I'd wanted that, but seem to have dithered my way into a bit of a hole where I've not got enough workers, production or infrastructure in place. Cyrus is toast once I hit nationalism/rifling, but I need to leverage enough to a tech lead on Sury to get him and Toku fighting to secure my northern border since neither is a terribly reliable neighbour. As expected, Toku's getting further and further behind in tech, but he's still got a lot more units than me so I could do with him trashing his SoD elsewhere.

Any advice on the best tech path to take?

 

[patagonia]

@ JBossch

Spoiler :

Congrats on taking those cities from under Cathy's nose - and on grabbing steel with Liberalism. That's huge considering the units the AIs seem to be marching around in your game.

The lack of wars in my universe means the global tech pace is a fair bit quicker, although since trading for world maps a couple of turns back, I'm kicking myself for not trying to send a WB/galley over to Spain/USA earlier. I just assumed Toku's culture would stop me since it was doing so on land. Those intercontinental trade routes would have been worth an extra 40/turn or thereabouts.

Looks like you're in a very strong position. Are you going to press the advantage and go for domination?

 

[Gliese 581]

Part 3 (520 AD - 1040 AD):

I thought about going back to the Charlie game but this game is just too much fun and besides, this is what all the cool kids are playing right now and I want to read the spoilers and discuss strategy.
I'll finish the daunting Charly game later, I've run into some major obstacles there, just thinking about it makes me tired.

Spoiler :

540: I got my second GS in Carthage and he could bulb Philosophy straight away but I was still growing somewhat in Carthage and building the NE there while whipping in many of my other cities so I didn't want to switch to CS/Pacifism yet. Also, I was hoping that someone else would beat me to Philosophy so I could avoid founding Taoism.

560: I meet Isabella who is the founder of Buddhism and not very advanced. She is naturally drawn to my charm and the fact that we chant the same suthras. I could bribe her to attack Sury but at this point I haven't discivered her whereabouts yet and don't know if that would be a good idea. Izzy and Sury dislikes each other but I keep trading with Sury for now for the trade route bonus.
I do a trade with Izzy however.

She completes the AP the same turn we meet and an election is held immediately. I vote for Cathy to get a chance at some diplo points to put her at friendly.

580: Finish CS, start on Paper. Cathy wins the election thanks to me and Tokugawa and my gambit pays off as I get another +2, putting Cathy at friendly.
She's now willing to attack anyone but I don't have enough to bribe her with. Empty land is running out and with Toku still at Cautious and getting ivory from Cathy I could be in trouble, I feel it's to bad I can't bribe Cathy to attack him at this point.

600: Toku threatens me for Literature and I refuse of course. This puts him at pleased and suddenly he's willing to open borders and trade. And to think I was ready to sell him to the lowest bidder last turn.
This is a great turn of events as I now have a greater chance of avoiding a pre-rennaisance war and can continue to focus my efforts on growth.

640: I decide I've waited enough with adopting CS+Pacifism and I bulb Philosophy even though I'm the first to get it. I hoped I would get the holy city in my border city Hadrumentum that is trying (unsuccesfully) to combat Cathys culture for the gems, but I get it down south in Kerkouane.
I revolt to CS and Pacifism before I realise I don't have buddhism yet in Carhtage! Gah, stupid, stupid, stupid!
I could've waited a few more turns and used the whip some more, now I have to wait for Utica who's halfway done on a buddhist monastery.
I send the taoist missionary to Hadrumentum to enable more culture buildings there. My first impulse was to send him to Carthage but that would lessen the chance of a succesfull buddhist spread there which I want asap.

I finally get a settler up north of Thapsus.

Amazingly, Tokugawa didn't build a city here although he's had two settlers moving around here for 5+ turns already, not even when he saw my settler the previous turn and was standning in the exact spot I now settled.

700: Izzy is WHEOOHRN. I'm guessing she's preparing to fight the unknown civ that founded hindusim and built the shrine.

740: I finish Paper and start on Calendar. I've delayed trading for Machinery since I want to bulb Liberalism directly and I want to double-bulb Education so the best I can do now is get the last preqs for bulbing Liberalism (Calendar & Compass).
I trade maps with Cathy for 15 gold and get the location of Izzy, on a close continent east of Cathy. This means I can now get trade routes to Izzy so I close borders and deals with Sury and open borders and trades with Izzy instead.

It looks like Sury might be a target for me after Lib unless the diplomatic situation changes. I decide I might go for muskets/cuirassiers although Sury's got ballista elephants. I'll have to move with a musketman/pike stack 1 steap ahead of my cuirassiers where possible if I encounter elephants to minimize their damage.
Maybe there will be time to go all the way to rifles/cavalry.
I make a trade with Cathy to enable numidian cavalry so I can upgrade some flanking 1 troops when it's time to attack.

780: A GS born, I bulb first half of Education.

800: Finish Calendar, start on Compass. I also settle a city that will get the Moai, better late than never I guess.

Sury has a settler with his longbowman there but after I settle he moves down 1 step before settling instead of using his creative trait to steal the iron. Thanks Sury!

820: I do another trade with Cathy.

840: I get a bit lucky as the AI suicides a couple of troops leaving this barbarian city with only 1 damaged defender:

I only had a C1+cover spear here since my army is spread very thin at the moment but it manages to capture the city at 65% chance. 2 clam, 2 sugar, 1 grassland cow. Looks like an excellent GP/farm or GT city. I think about possibly building the GT here, there are lots of forests to chop it out and it's right by Sury's borders. I have way to few workers right now though, 10 workers for (now) 13 cities, including 2 jungle cities (a problem this entire game, possibly because I've just kept expanding throughout and was a bit sloppy).

860: More trades.

I held of on Lib techs for a while but I'm very confident to get it now.

940: A GS is born and I bulb the rest of Education. After compass I went for Music to enable Military Tradition but now I put in the required beakers in Liberalism to bulb it directly with my next GS, before I finish Music.

980: My exploring Galley finally meets the last civ, Lincoln. He's indeed at war with Izzy and running his founded state religion Hinduism. Naturally he doesn't like me. He's only met the ladies except for me and none of them likes him. He's very backwards.
Cathy founds Islam. Well the chances of her adopting that with buddhism as the AP religion and well established are slim to none but it's good that she chases bad techs.

1010: Izzy asks me to dow Lincoln and I agree as I have little to lose.

1040: Another GS is born and I bulb Liberalism and pick Nationalism as my free tech. I start building the Taj Mahal in Persepolis and plan to chop my last two forests there to speed it up a bit.

After bulbing Liberalism I could finally trade for Machinery.

I could go for either Printing Press or Gunpowder now. Gunpowder could be sueful for the +12k free soldiers and to enable me to start building a better army and I need it for Cuirassiers anyhow. Printing Press is a nice tech for the economy obviously but not needed for Cuirassiers and Musketmen.

The tech situation at the end of my turn:

Notice that Sury has guilds and could go for Gunpowder. Perhaps it's for the best if I wait with attacking him until I have rifles/cavalry. Many of my cities is desperately lacking infrastructure as I've only concentrated on the most elementary buildings and the ones needed for a rennaisance draft -war (granary, monastery & missionaries, theatres, courthouses) and with a golden age coming up they could get some work done.
I'm trying to generate a GM next in Carthage for a trade mission. I plan on getting around 15 num cavs and upgrade them. I need about 3000-3500 gold to upgrade them to cavalry so I'll be looking to sell old techs and whatever else I can get. It's alot of money but I believe I can make the attack slightly faster this way. Let's see how it falls out!

 

[JBossch]

@Gliese
The save attached to my Round 3: Part 1 report is the latest one (1080AD). I only split the reports because of too many screenshots.

@Patagonia

Spoiler :

Thanks, I was pretty happy about grabbing those cities with my pathetic stack in the face of Cathy's SoD. I think DoWing Toku a few turns early saved the day. There were some real nail-biter turns in there but I even managed to get her to suicide most of her stack. (Not to brag but I also did it while holding down a second front against Sury.) She still got Satsuma (and another inland city after my last report) which will be annoying down the line.
As for victory, I am definitely going for domination. I think conquering my continent while keeping up good relations with the other should do it but an invasion of Isabella at that point shouldn't be too difficult if necessary. (One complication: Izzy has recently gone for FR from the Shwedagon Paya dropping our relationship to cautious. I am hoping she will fight her neighbor but we will see.) At any rate, my cannons (which are finally starting to pile up) should devastate Sury. They may even be up-to-date against Cathy later but, in case they aren't, I am heading directly for artillery. I hear they are pretty effective against Longbows.
As for your tech situation, have you decided to write off Lib? It looks like 1 or 2 of your AIs can tech education but 2 bulbs could do it if you get compass (but not machinery!) out of the way. (that is, one for edu, one for lib) I haven't had time to look at the save in detail so I don't know if this is feasible but if you haven't popped many GP's yet it should be easy to do so with a CS/Pacifism run.
Are you waiting for rifles to kill Cyrus? Would muskets and trebs be good enough?

 

[Gliese 581]

patagonia

Spoiler :

I agree with your assesment that you should go after Cyrus when you get a tech lead on him. I think the important issue is to determine which is going to be the greatest threat to you, Tokugawa or Sury. If you put all your EPs on Sury for a couple of turns you'll be able to determine his power level which could be useful.
From looking at the wonder screen it seems that Isabella is Buddhist and The american civ is Hindu. If you want to get Sury to friendly you could convert to buddhism if that spreads to you. Cathy won't mind as long as you're both in HR.
You could also try to get Cathy to friendly and then pay her to backstab Tokugawa to tag team him. I think if you get Cyrus land and Tokus best cities you'll be in a very good position.
I'm not certain that Liberalism is lost since the AI don't always go straight for Education even when they get Paper early. You'll most likely have to scramble to get it though and work as many scientists in Carthage as possible. If you work the gold and as much food as possible with the rest you can work 5 scientists there at stagnation. It's unfortunate that you've already got Machinery otherwise you could get a GS at roughly the same time as Edu and bulb Liberalism. I think you could still give it a try though, but maximize research if you do. You could self research Lib in under 25 turns.

 

[Gliese 581]

JBossch:

Spoiler :

Ah, missed your save. I only had time for a quick look now, will look again after work.
You could trade Education to Cathy for Optics, Feudalism, 160 gold and world map if you want to.

 

[Gliese 581]

TheMeInTeam:

Spoiler :

I think you're definitely in the Liberalism race but Cathy has got Education and there's still two civs you haven't met so you should probably focus all your energy on getting it to make sure.
I don't think Izzy is the founder of Hinduism, I think it's Lincoln. At the wonder screen you can see that it's in an Unknown City of size 13 that also built the TOA. You have a visual on Izzies first three cities and none of them have it and usually hinduism will end up in someone's capital, in this case Washington. It's a very interesting religious situation you have with 3 teams, 2x hindu, buddhist and jew.
You're probably right that Sury is going after Toku, that would give you an excellent opportunity to grab some more land, Sury might even do the work for you like Cathy did for JBossch in his game.
Have you decided on where to put the HE? It's only a couple of turns in a good production city with marble hooked up.

JBossch

Spoiler :

Had another look at your game and I think you've practically won. Everyone hates your enemies and there's plenty of land to conquer.
Perhaps you should go after Sury and leave Toku as a buffer against Cathys expansion? She'll beat him of course but you've gotten his best cities already. Or maybe you could bribe her to peace soon and take care of both Toku and Sury yourself? Though at least if she's kept at war she wont backstab you. I don't know if any of this is a good idea, just throwing out some random thoughts.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't have the update ready yet, but I'm still in need of work on immortal for sure. I came so close to giving up...so close! I didn't though and I'm glad, I might actually win and it should be entertaining to watch me flop around like a fish in the coming segment .

 

[JBossch]

[/SPOILER]

JBossch

Spoiler :

Had another look at your game and I think you've practically won. Everyone hates your enemies and there's plenty of land to conquer.
Perhaps you should go after Sury and leave Toku as a buffer against Cathys expansion? She'll beat him of course but you've gotten his best cities already. Or maybe you could bribe her to peace soon and take care of both Toku and Sury yourself? Though at least if she's kept at war she wont backstab you. I don't know if any of this is a good idea, just throwing out some random thoughts.

Spoiler :

I think I will probably win too, but I would like to try to max score by doing it quickly. I sometimes screw up at this point by not micromanaging enough and getting sloppy.
All interesting ideas on the war situation with Toku and Sury. Keep in mind Toku has vassaled to Sury so a war with either is a war with both. Keeping Toku around may not be an option as he is about ready to blow over in a strong wind. Cathy's SoD will crush him even without my help. To be honest, he had nothing even when I first attacked him in 720AD, not even LBs. I played a few more turns and was about to bribe Cathy to peace like you said and then she did it on her own the next turn. (Earlier I really wanted to but I got "We would love to but you will have to talk to them" and Sury, who I hadn't really hurt yet besides taking out his first SoD, wanted a city for peace.) At this point, I think my cannons can take out Sury and Toku without any help.

In my next update, another AP vote results in another Buddhist jihad and I get a little more use out of Cathy's crap units. Sury is a much sturdier opponent and her units died for the glory of Carthage right before my cannons went in. Read my next update for the all the carnage.
Your last point is basically what I'm operating on now. I don't know how likely a backstab is but it would really throw a wrench in my plans as my eastern front is very lightly defended. I figure a war keeps her busy and out of any Defense pacts (which happened with Izzy right before the AP declaration).

EDIT: Thanks for the bulb list Gliese! I did the same thing, saving it to a text file. Here it is reprinted if anybody wants it.

Spoiler :

Great Prophet:

Meditation
Polytheism
Priesthood
Monotheism
Theology
Divine Right
Mysticism
Masonry (Warlords patch & BTS)
Code of Laws
Civil Service
Monarchy
Literature
Music
Writing
Philosophy
Printing Press
Drama
Aesthetics (BTS)
Alphabet
Paper
Education
Liberalism
Calendar
Masonry (Vanilla & unpatched Warlords)
Animal Husbandry
Construction
Future Tech

Great Scientist:

Writing
Mathematics
Scientific Method
Physics
Education
Printing Press
Fiber Optics
Computers
Laser (BTS)
The Wheel
Alphabet (BTS)
Philosophy
Chemistry
Fission
Fusion
Optics
Paper
Astronomy
Biology
Electricity
Flight
Genetics
Compass
Satellites
Aesthetics (BTS)
Sailing
Alphabet (Vanilla & Warlords)
Calendar
Medicine
Ecology
Advanced Flight (BTS)
Iron Working
Metal Casting
Engineering
Steam Power
Liberalism
Agriculture
Masonry
Bronze Working
Machinery
Gunpowder
Refrigeration
Superconductors (BTS)
Rocketry
Fishing
Combustion
Plastics
Composites
Stealth (BTS)
Mining
Military Science (BTS)
Radio
Meditation
Drama
Theology
Music
Civil Service
Democracy
Corporation
Communism
Economics
Hunting
Archery
Animal Husbandry
Construction
Robotics
Monotheism
Mass Media
Horseback Riding
Replaceable Parts
Rifling
Artillery
Future Tech

Great Artist:

Literature
Drama
Music
Polytheism
Monarchy
Mass Media
Radio
Mysticism
Monotheism
Divine Right
Alphabet (Vanilla & Warlords)
Aesthetics (BTS)
Meditation
Priesthood
Theology
Nationalism
Writing
Philosophy
Printing Press
Liberalism
Pottery
Horseback Riding
Democracy
Education
Military Tradition
Communism
Astronomy
Computers
Feudalism
Constitution
Fishing
Sailing
Paper
Biology
Archery
Masonry
Metal Casting
Civil Service
Guilds
Fascism
Hunting
Animal Husbandry
Bronze Working
Construction
Railroad
Robotics
Future Tech

Great Merchant:

Currency
Banking
Economics
Corporation
Metal Casting
Code of Laws
Mining
Constitution
The Wheel
Alphabet (BTS)
Pottery
Sailing
Paper
Railroad
Industrialism
Monarchy
Civil Service
Guilds
Fascism
Mass Media
Agriculture
Writing
Mathematics
Printing Press
Flight
Machinery
Replaceable Parts
Satellites
Mysticism
Priesthood
Divine Right
Nationalism
Calendar
Scientific Method
Medicine
Horseback Riding
Compass
Steam Power
Future Tech

Great Engineer:

Machinery
Assembly Line
Industrialism
Combustion
Metal Casting
Mining
Iron Working
Engineering
Replaceable Parts
Steam Power
Steel
Robotics
Railroad
Feudalism
Fascism
The Wheel
Plastics
Masonry
Construction
Guilds
Bronze Working
Corporation
Electricity
Animal Husbandry
Gunpowder
Priesthood
Monarchy
Code of Laws
Constitution
Agriculture
Economics
Chemistry
Fission
Genetics
Fusion
Optics
Civil Service
Nationalism
Communism
Ecology
Pottery
Calendar
Currency
Banking
Scientific Method
Physics
Writing (BTS)
Medicine
Refrigeration
Superconductors (BTS)
Computers
Divine Right
Fishing
Mathematics
Flight
Fiber Optics
Hunting
Horseback Riding
Rifling
Future Tech

 

[Sleepless]

500 - 1180AD

Spoiler :

End of last turn I wasn't sure where to go and still not either. I set my research for Mil Trad hoping to get it from Lib so did I get it?

Nope missed it again. I knew Isabella was close but tbh I don't want to get in a rut and always go for Lib etc so quite glad really. I have built the Taj and Mom so currently in a 24 turn GA. Both built in Persopolis which popped a Great Artist who was promptly burnt for the 2nd Golden Age.

Current Techs.

Even without getting Lib, looking good. I've got 1 turn left on Chem then probably on to steel. Not sure yet though.

Demographics.

Looking good although I am in a Golden Age.

One more city was added to the Empire.

Cathie lost this city earlier to Tok. So a short war with Tok at Sury's request was started. Didn't quite go to plan as I suddenly had to deal with a lot of Samurai. Thought Sury had knocked him down a bit. Obviously not. So at the first chance I took peace as I didn't want to spend my Golden Age burning units, I'd rather get my infrastructure up. So at a cost of compass, rather than returning the city which he wanted back peace was made. Although I will be back.

So future plans are to attack Tok again, what units I'm not sure yet. Which is why I stopped where I did. Then probably on to Sury although that will be bloody as well.

 

[Sleepless]

@Gliese581

Spoiler :

I managed to get the barb city with the clams/sugar/cow as well. Also planning on putting the Globe in there. Only problem being I'm not sure when I will go for rifling so drafting might not be a priority. Shame you can't draft Grens.

On settling the North though as Sury went there very quickly in my game.

 

[Sleepless]

@ Patagonia

Spoiler :

I was in the same position as you tech wise. I would send a ship to meet USA/Spain ASAP to see there tech position. In my game Lib went in 980. It depends whether you can bulb Edu quickly if you stand a chance or not. In your position (haven't looked at the save) I would head for Rifling/Nat and draft an army whilst building trebs.

If you think you can get Lib go for it though.

Good Luck

 

[patagonia]

Chapter 4: 900AD - 1220AD (27 turns)

Spoiler :

A quick set this time because I'm in a bit of a quandary and would appreciate some more advice (thanks for all that's come my way so far too!).

Although I wouldn't be able to generate a GS in time to bulb education (or liberalism since I already had machinery), I decided to research compass for cothon's and then head down that route regardless. I timed another GS to coincide with the completion of education and used him to bulb printing press, finishing that off before starting on liberalism.

It's now 1220AD, I'm one turn from liberalism and look to have it sewn up unless I get very unlucky (Cathy's the only one I'm in contact with who's got Education and I only traded it to her this turn for banking and optics).

I'm not totally sure which tech I should pick though:

1. Replaceable parts (on the way to rifling)
2. Economics (free GM and the ability to get AIs out of mercantilism)
3. Astronomy (meet Isabella/Washington).

I can trade for gunpowder with Cyrus which would make chemistry a possibility, but Sury's already got that which makes it a less attractive choice.

A look at the tech situation 1 turn from liberalism:

The diplomatic situation has been complicated slightly by Cathy signing a DP with Cyrus (she'll also sign one with me, but I haven't taken her up on that). Sury won't agree to war with either because of that, but he'll declare on Toku if I can come up with a big enough bribe (education's not enough on its own).

 

[tycoonist]

thought it would be a sin if i didn't at least give this a shot.

4000BC - 1AD:

Spoiler :

i went the route that most did in conquering Persia. i now have 7 cities (3 from persia, 1 the useless Utica, built only for the copper.) my main army is capturing cities in the north.

i have just finished CoL. techrate is absolutely shocking. no one had founded Confucianism by 1 AD, so i got it, unfourtunately not in my other (hindu) holy city captured from Cyrus. and i went to Col via currency, ie the slow way. i have started (tentatively) on aesthetics for the GL.

on the diplomatic front, things are complicated. religion is split between the three AIs. i am still unreligious, but might have to adopt one soon.

i could do with some advice, but i think it has gone well overall.

the save:

 

[Sleepless]

1180 - 1480 AD

Spoiler :

I'm in a very very bad mood now. Spent ages writing a detailed report pressed preview post like I had a few times whilst writing it and on the last one it said I wasn't logged in and lost the lot.

Here goes for a shorter report. I'll let the screenshots do most of the talking.

Good and bad events.

Industrial Age.

Fast Tech rate?

Nice Event this is an absolute joke city only built for the gold. Might even draft 1 of these new pop as its now up to size 6.

First to Economics do I go for a trade mission.

On the same turn I got a GS so decided on an extra 12 turns of Golden Age instead.

Still teching fast?

In these years I teched PP/RP/Rifles/Steam (no coal)/Demo currently going for SM but have a couple of monasteries to build first.

Demographics.

Looking Good.

Capital cities.

As soon as I get bio will be given corn back and be able to grow again.

Ironworks City

Was tempted to use the GE to help build the SoL but I'm pretty certain to get it so settled instead.

I've got 1 turn of GA left so planning on changing civics to Rep/Nat/CS/FM/FR. This will put Cathie at annoyed so possibility of war there. Possibility of going for Tok but as he is at war with Sury I'll have to bribe him to stop first.

Sorely tempted to go for tanks and squash everbody though. Any thoughts?

 

[Gliese 581]

Sleepless

Spoiler :

Looking good. Have you decided on a victory condition?
What are your thoughts on trading with Lincoln btw? He's the worst enemy of both Cathy and Izzy I think and Cathy is his worst enemy, wont someone ask for a trade embargo soon?

patagonia

Spoiler :

I think you should pick Nationalism or Gunpowder and gear up for war against Toku. If you take Nara and keep friendly with Cathy you will get trade access with the other continent and get a nice gem city in the process, eliminating the need for Astronomy.

tycoonist

Spoiler :

I think you're still in contention for the GL, it usually goes late. You should think about exploring a bit more though. I have the same problem every game, don't explore enough and build too few workers, it's a wonder I don't get my ass kicked, but then it's Mr Awesome leader Hannibal we're playing and I've had lots of luck with tech pops, wonders etc.
You could use your confucian missionary to explore cathys land. It might also be a good idea to send a work boat in Surys direction to open up coastal trade with him.

 

[Sleepless]

Stupid posting system was trying to write a reply to Patagonia and got my last post back instead. Probably my fault though.

@Patagonia

Spoiler :

on Lib. Personally I would go for RP and rifles and draft myself an army. Build GT (if you haven't already). Obviously need Nat as well but hopefully be able to trade for that. No harm in taking RP and going for Economics as well but I wouldn't take it from Lib.

Do you need Astro to meet the other AI though?

@Gliese581

Spoiler :

I'm planning on trying for a Domination win. A lot depends on whether I have oil or not. If not war very soon. If I do tanks will get a lot of use.

As for trading with Lincoln. He has some important happies and nice cities for trade routes so no way will I stop trading with him. Cathie will be annoyed with me as I've refused her last demands anyway especially when I go into Rep (big possibility of her declaring on me but as I have Cav/Cannon and Rifles she'll regret it ). Isabella is in FR makes a change (probably going for a cultural win) so she won't mind me trading to much.

 

[patagonia]

@ Tycoonist

Spoiler :

You look in pretty good shape after your rush, but watch out for Sury as he's WHEOOHRN at the moment. He's got construction on you (all the AI seem to have), but doesn't have HBR yet. If you can get your units up to Magyar in time, that'll act as a good buffer against him since it's on a hill.

If you can get a couple of settlers over to those islands, the intercontinental trade will be a reasonable boost to your economy, even without the Great Lighthouse.

@ Sleepless

Spoiler :

Thanks for the advice. You're looking in good shape after those GAs. Even allowing for the boost, the demographics look pretty healthy. I'd be surprised if there's no oil within your current borders since it's often found in jungle.

 

[Gliese 581]

Part 4 (1040 AD - 1410 AD):

Spoiler :

I decided to go the safer route and get Gunpowder next after picking up Nationalism. I was afraid Sury might attack me and I wanted to be able to draft Musketmen in case of an emergency.

1060: Trade with Cathy.

1080: Cathy proposes war against Lincoln. I'm fine with that since I'm already at war with him. Slower tech pace for Cathy and diplo points with her and Toku at 0% risk (Lincoln has no caravels anyhow).

1090: The vote succeeds, everyone voted yes, time to get bullied Lincoln.

1120: Finish Gunpowder, start on Printing Press.

1140: My attempt at GM generation is a success, I send him to Persepolis to hop on a caravel and travel to Madrid for a trade mission.
With one turn left on the Taj Mahal I make another trade with Cathy.

I regretted this one almost immediately. She might have been researching one of the techs but that's still two really nice ones for one I don't need at all at the moment.

I also sell a tech to Toku.

1150: The Taj is completed. I adopt Free Speech with the intention of switching to Nationhood later.

More trades.

1170: I remember to ask some AIs for gold, they give me a total of 140. Note to self: turn 177.

1180: Finish PP, start on Banking.

1190: Cathy has banking for trade.

I decide to give Economics a shot.

1220: Cathy beats me to Economics by 1 turn. I start on Replacable Parts followed by Rifling.
At least I get some more gold for upgrading.

The next turn I got a GS that I burned for another GA. I continue to sell techs to Toku.

1280: Sury threatens me for more than 1600 gold, a danger with having lots of cash. I refuse.
AP votes comes up and it's me or Izzy. Sury gets the circumnavigation bonus.

1300: This one brought him up to friendly temporarily:

Good old Toku. No matter how much techs you sell him he will never catch up. Perpetual cash cow.

1330: GM born, I decide to save him for another GA.

1340: Rifling completed, start on Military Tradition. Start drafting 3 units a turn.
I get a quest to seize copper from Toku, anyone know the rewards for this one? "Greed"
Everyone else has made peace with Lincoln so I make peace as well.. for 10 gold.

1370: Izzy gets MT and I do a trade after some research.

1390: I changed my mind about the GM and decided I needed more money, I sent him to Moscow and he got the same amount as the first GM (1700 gold).

1410: Livy the immortal completes his great work.

More sales.

I'm probably going after him once I finish Sury but whatever. I'm just about ready to make my attack.

Notice the promotions. Unfortunately the war with Cyrus didn't last long enough to give me 2 GGs or they would have been CR3.
The defenses in Banteay Kdei, home of the Confucianist shrine:

A look at demographics:

And techs:

Cathy surpassed me here toward the end, partly thanks to my liberal trades, but her army is puny compared to mine and I'm #1 in land even before I attack Sury so it shouldn't be a problem.
I got the GT in the food-rich city just outside Sury's borders which will speed up reinforcements.
My civics are a bit weird, I switched to Free Market during my second GA but I forgot about switching to slavery so I'm still in Caste System. Hopefully the war against Sury will be quick. The Numidian Cavalries were a bit of waste since my HE city Persepolis is pumping out level 3 cavalries with the help of Theocracy.