Immortal University XVI - Hatshepsut

[ungy]

Every AI has a hidden peaceweight variable which will to some extent determine diplomatic relations with other AI's, and the variable is dependent on how much the AI in question values peace. The extremes are 0 and 10 - 0 are the heavy warmongers (such as Alex, Genghis, Monty) while Gandhi has a peaceweight of 10.

Does that number determine whether the AI can declare on you at pleased (or if I understand it correctly the % chance the AI will abort an attack at pleased)?
Also how do I find it?

 

[PaulusIII]

Does that number determine whether the AI can declare on you at pleased (or if I understand it correctly the % chance the AI will abort an attack at pleased)?
Also how do I find it?

No. The peaceweight does not determine how much of a backstabber an AI is.

Peaceweights can be found in the XML files for the leaderheads under iBasePeaceWeight. The Civilization IV BTS reference sheet gives the peaceweights in the leader information as well (under 'relation factor').

 

[Bleys]

I would like to apologize if the Floodplain/GP farm thread is too big of a spoiler for this game, but I thought it was a great example of this common terrain occurrence.

OK, that being said, here is my pitiful attempt to play Immortal level.

Epic speed, thru 250 BC, with a most fascinating "event":

Spoiler :

I settled 1S, being on the river, started a worker and AH. I felt I could go for a couple Wonders with that stone, so I built built the GW early, putting 120+ hammers into it the very turn I finished the Quarry with a whip/chop combo. I wish I had taken a screenshot of it, best timed thing I have done in a while. Turned out the barbs werent much of a problem, because the land went pretty fast, and cities make the best fogbusters. There were a few, but I had WCs pretty early too, so it wasnt a factor. I mainly built the GW for the Spy/GG points. I fully expect to have to fight for my land this game.

I had met my neighbors, and wasnt too happy. Alex is one of my pet-hated AIs, hes a backstabbing weasel. Augustus isnt so bad, but still, Praets are Praets, and he Wonderspams sometimes, which I wont mind when I take his cities. Anyway, it was going to be tight. Alex was already starting to crowd me, and Auggie was doing a good job REXing out the NE. It appears we are on a smallish continent, and both AIs are against the ocean.

2nd city was the aforementioned Copper/Floodplain GP Farm site to the west.

Spoiler :

I also got the Horses in the 3rd ring quickly since Hatty is CRE. 3rd city went even farther west, to the Marble/Corn spot. I kept building WC's here and there as well, and Axes once I got the Copper online, and added workers since I had lots of road to do.Two barb cities popped up, so I pulled my various roaming WC's back, and started moving Axes toward them.

I lost the Mids, they got build pretty early, but then again I forget its Immortal sometimes, so maybe not so early. Anyway, I missed them:

Spoiler :

A while later, my units were ready and took out the 2 barb cities, one just as Auggie was about to take it. I knew that because I saw 2 Praets, one injured, standing next to my 2 Axes/3 War Chariots. I thought to myself "Oh great, praets". At least he and Alex are already Wost Enemies of each other.

Now, as I was moving to take the 2nd Barb city (first was just NW of my Cap, 2nd was on the coast NE of my cap), I noticed Alex had filled in the entire northern area nicely, and still had a settler coming my way. Argh, I just hate these games where the AI feels obligated to settle every 4x4 tile opening it sees.

No worries though, I had one of the strongest traits there is for Sardine maps, CRE, and my Barb cities had both already popped 2nd ring borders when Alex's settler combo reached its spot. And actually, I was starting to get worried, because despite my building 10+ units by 300 BC, I was sitting at .4 Power with both these jokers, and we had no religion on our landmass yet (see "plans & priorities" portion at the end of report).

Alex had an annoying looking stack of troops forming in the border cities near me too, so I was praying he wasnt coming my way. I even gave him Deer as a gift to try for Diplo til I could get a religion, and I refused to open borders with Auggie when he asked.

Then, the most amazing thing happened. I was floored. It was . . . I dont even know how to describe it, but I can say with confidence I have NEVER had this happen before.

Alex gave me that city he just put down!

Spoiler :

OMHFG!! I have NEVER seen that! Does it happen on Immortal more than lower levels or something? Could it be because I gave him Deer? Heres a pic of the spot, the new city is the one with all the Greek units in it and no food. The city just up the coast to the NE is the 2nd Barb city I just took 10 or so turns ago, and the Corn city to the west is the 1st Barb city I took:

Spoiler :

Crazy eh? LOL, who wants to bet he will DoW on me in a few turns and raze it, heh.

Here are my 3 cities, I still have room to squeeze in 2 more in my area, I think, plus the 2 barb and the one Alex gave me.

Spoiler :

Cap



GP Farm, decided on all cottages on the FPs, theres so much food there.



Marble City. I am addicted to Marble, my last Wonder-holic symptom

Regarding my Plans & Priorities, I think Number One is "Found a religion". I am going to run a couple Priests in GP Farm City and hopefully pop a Prophet and nab Christianity. Might even try CoL right away, like now, since I am chopping out Libraries in all cities, and I have good food for running Scientists.

I am also planning to build Walls in all cities. They add to Power rating, right? With Stone, its not a bad move to build Walls and then slam out Castles ASAP and get that TR. Works better if the walls are up pre-Engineering.

The GL is a definite target, in my FP city. I have a couple production spots, but I have way too many water tiles in my cities. Hopefully my CRE and cheap Culture buildings will win me some land.

As for rushing, well, I am sure someone managed to rush Auggie, but Alex is about the worst AI you could see if you have an early mounted UU. I am SO GLAD there was Copper in range, I would hate to think what it would be like vs Phalanx's and Praets without a metal.

I hope I can hold out, I think I am playing it decently, and this "style" of map is one of the hardest to play IMHO. Its easy to play with lots of room and food out your ying-yang. My best results vs the Immortal AI has come on watery maps where the GLH is godly, and there are plenty of islands for everyone to settle. This is a rough situation though, one I do not do well with.

 

[PaulusIII]

@ Bleys:

Spoiler :

Could you perhaps post a save?

Are you really sure you want to try and shoot for more wonders? To me, it seems like your lands lack something more vital - happiness. You're still at happy cap 4 so you really need to get your hands on either Monarchy or Calendar, or perhaps a religion. That should get much more priority than trying to get the Great Library.

I don't think that anyone would try to rush here. Yes, you've got war chariots but you're up against two AI's you really don't want to chariotrush on immortal. Why you don't rush Alex is obvious but I've noticed that both Caesars tend to beeline IW so you're likely to run into praetorians as well.

Add to that that Hatty's not exactly short of room on this map, and you really want to start in peace.

 

[UncleJJ]

@ Bleys

Spoiler :

Bleys that city was given to you because you were putting cultural pressure on it, I guess. It was likely to flip to you anyway. The big stack of troops was probably to stop a revolt, not to attack you . Then when he wanted to use those troops, to attack Augustus (or defend against him) he gave you the city. That often happens if the AI builds a city too close to a city where you have powerful wonders pumping out a ton of culture.

 

[ungy]

Bleys:
I have never seen the event you did in Civ 4.
As for the game:

Spoiler :

you definately don't want to consider a rush here.
As Paulus points out, neither AI is great to rush with WC and generally rushing is a bad plan when you're on a continent with 3 AI--if you're successful you end up with a crashed economy and nobody to trade techs with.
Here you have lots of great land and stone/marble for wonders--perfect for peace (if you can keep it).

 

[Bleys]

Good tips, thanks guys. Uncle JJ:

Spoiler :

I think you were right, shortly after that "event", Alex DoWed on Auggie.

@ Bleys: Could you perhaps post a save?

Here is the save the turn before. Just hit "End Turn" and it will happen.

Spoiler :

I figure he had started the settler and escort units to the spot before I took that barb city to the NE. By the time they got there, that city had been mine for 11 turns and had already popped its borders.

 

[Yesod]

Bleys,

Spoiler :

How in the world did you get the green transparent city screen???

 

[Bleys]

Bleys,

How in the world did you get the green transparent city screen??? :drool

Its a function of the Blue Marble graphics package (my apology for not linking it, lazy today). I notice a lot of people with various colors and transparencies. Its a nice package.

 

[Sleepless]

Normal - 75BC

Spoiler :

Settled 1S for the stone and deer and the river for later levee.

Tech route went Hunt/AH/Mining/BW/Pot/Mas/Writing not necessarily in that order. Second city was built for the FP/Pig and Bronze. Third city for the Marble/Bronze/Pigs and planned HE city (still need IW for the pigs though).

Managed to build the Pyramids and with the marble I thought it would be a good idea to go for the GLib. Just finished Lit and at the same time had my first GP which is a GE from the Mids so I'm now debating with myself do I use him for the GLib or settle. I'll probably use him just in case someone else builds them in the meantime as I don't know how the other continent are doing.

JC and Alex are at war which will let me build up peacefully till its time to take over the island.

Current lands:



There are a couple of other places to settle but nothing which will help me at the moment. Tech plan is to get Curr and CoL as quick as possible. No-one has Alpha yet so so that will be my next tech and hopefully I will be able to pick up Math and IW from that.

 

[yena]

Until 1220AD

Spoiler :

I changed research to Philosophy and got Taoism, which I spread to the Romans and every where else. I built the Angkor Wat in 790, and employed lots of priests to get a GP for the shrine. This was successful, and boosted the economy quite a bit. I got Optics, delaying Liberalism a bit, but I was still first to get it in 960, picking Nationalism as the free tech. The Taj Mahal kicked off a timely GA for getting markets and universities in place.

Now I want to get the GM from Economics, and then I will go for Rifling, followed by an attack on Alex. He is too dangerous to keep around, and I need more land.

 

[yena]

@sleepless

Spoiler :

I also got a GE when I was about to build the GL, and I used him to get the Parthenon, which I often miss when I try to build both. Not only does it increase the GP rate, but if you rush the Parthenon in a border city you can win culture battles as well.

 

[Sleepless]

@Yena

Spoiler :

Hammer wise it is better to build the Parth than the GLib. I was already halfway through the Parth in a border city so no point in this game. Ended up using the GE on the GLib.

 

[Sleepless]

1280 AD

Spoiler :

Decided to build the GLib with my GE. That wasn't the end of my wonders. I also went on to build the Parth/A Wat/UoS and Taj. Alex and AC have been at war all this time although JC has got the upper hand now so he will have to be my first target. Hopefully Alex won't capitulate to him before I start my attack.

I was the first to Lib (Bulbs used 1 each for Philo/Edu and Lib) took Nat and am just finishing my GA from the Taj. I also have a GA and a GS so will use one of them to carry on my GAge and hopefully another one afterwards. I have 2 turns left on steel then will head for rifling and draft a few troops then probably on to JC unless something else happens in the meantime. Have met all but SB no-one likes me on the other continent due to different religions. I founded Tao and built the shrine. Also moved the capital to make the most of the beau bonus.

Current lands.



Not much different from last time.

Tech situation.



Asoka has Astro so I might change to Free Religion which will help with tech trades and hopefully stop people from attacking me. Until I'm ready that is.

 

[Bleys]

I struggled with this game, but went back and tried to play it some more:

Through 400 AD:

Spoiler :

Going for the GL actually almost killed me. I tried to tech through Lit too early, and my economy was in shambles by the middle of it, and then, all 3 of my planned Marble wonders went within a couple turns of each other, the MoM, the Parth, and the GL. MoM is no biggie, being SPI makes Golden Ages a bit less critical, but I wanted the GL. I checked my game, and I stopped 2 turns after it was built, LOL. Obviously I was acting like a spoiled child who didnt get his way!

I am still very much in the picture in this game though, thanks to the near-constant war between Alex and Auggie. Still no religion, I need to go after Taoism myself. I may not play it for a few days though, too many other games I want to finish off (yes, I have half a dozen serious games half finished, as usual).

Immortal is rough though. All my timing is a mess. I think half of learning a new level is merely having a better grasp of the games timetable. I think thats why I suck at Normal speed, even on Monarch and Emp levels, because of timing. I am convinced its something you cant define exactly, a "feel" that rarely gets mentioned because it is so intangible and hard to explain. Whenever I go down levels (and play my preferred Epic speed) I totally dominate because I do everything a jillion turns before the AI, because my timing is so Emp-Epic-Oriented.

 

[Sleepless]

- 1901

Spoiler :

Managed a space victory in 1901. The main problem I had was no one to trade techs with. Apart from Physics, Med and Art I think I had to tech all the rest after Sci Meth. I was hoping to get an earlier finish and with all the land I had probably should have done.

As planned I attacked AC with drafted rifles/cannon. He had vassaled Alex so I had to fight him at the same time. As there best units were Knights/Maces had no problem taking all there cities. It wasn't until the end they even had Gunpowder so apart from the time wiping them both out it was pretty easy.

After that it was a quick catch up in tech as I'd fallen a little bit behind, though not for long. I changed to Free Religion to keep the other continent happy so was never in any danger of being attacked by them and then it was just a long slog to space.

I'll let the demographics show how far ahead I was.

 

[PaulusIII]

@ Bleys:

Spoiler :

Don't give up yet. Immortal can be rough but from what you're saying I gather Al and AC are warring - and thus likely poor in tech. You might still be able to get a win.

@ Sleepless:

Spoiler :

Your game seems to have played out very similar to mine if not for a better execution of the overall plan. How did you recover that quickly from the Alex/AC war if you caught up quickly in tech?

Then again, I might have had a bit of bad luck with the diplo situation on the other continent. Charle and Mao were BFF and trading techs around between each other, while neither Asoka or Bull played an important role. I don't know how that played out in your game.

 

[Sleepless]

@ PaulusIII

Spoiler :

Before the Alex/AC war I was teching really well. During the war I relied on specialists for beakers as apart from one city I hadn't built any cottages. A couple in Thebes but that became my Ironworks so they were changed to watermill/workshops. Also managed to get the SoL so that was a big help.

Finally just as the war finished I managed to get to Communism for State Property and with 30ish cities my tech rate soared again. Much to fast for the other AI . At the end I was putting out 4 - 5000+ beakers per turn.

Same sort of diplo on the other continent. Charlie/Mao friends, Asoka in a different religion and Mao attacking SB every so often.

 

[PaulusIII]

@ Sleepless

Spoiler :

I noticed that communism/SP was a big boost to my economy as well - I think I should've gone there earlier, but wasted some time on other techs. I still have a lot to learn on immortal but this game is a start.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Bah I lost my old screen shots and my 1st game went crappy anyhow. I started from the 4000 BC normal save again. This time, not only did I play better, but I didn't get so utterly hosed with bad luck, either.

To 1 AD:

Spoiler :

Opened AH, Mining, Masonry, and put up a city and the wall:



Shwing.

We also have stone and at least some room so I use other cities to hurt my tech rate expanding and the mids to get me some /research:



Alex acts as usual toward high peace weight guys:



1 AD Empire:





Despite mids/rep the only way to pay for these cities is cottages. So, we see a hybrid here. Obviously with marble Glib makes sense along with those national wonders. The barb city will let me unlock heroic epic.

To 700 AD:

Spoiler :

I get Glib in a reasonable (not great) timeframe:



It's great with rep and an academy. My capitol is doing my research justice by itself. I popped 2 spies so I'm focusing EP on AC. I had to stop trading with him to keep alex happy with me. That's fine though. I can still steal currency and a couple other things off him for reasonably low investment.

I grab parthenon too while those two remain at war:



And they make peace



I'm starting to backfill cities. I want to close in some spots AC hasn't nabbed yet even though they don't have food resources, and I want to grab the fishing and whaling villages to my SW and south.

These guys are both teching pretty slowly so oxford will probably let me get rifles/cavalry before alex can touch that kind of tech. If I can keep him on AC I can hold until my tech lead captures the continent I think.

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