Imperial Glory

[EQandcivfanatic]

OOC: Are the Weser and Werra navigable?

Can we retrieve the monies lost through reduced duties through increased taxes on the land, or through increased duties on other trade routes? I think that a landlocked country like Bavaria needs to get New World produce from somewhere.

Well, you could just do what they did in our timeline, pay through the nose to get the luxury goods you desire so much. You're welcome to try taxing the land more, and we'll see what the nobles have to say about that. This statement applies not just to you, but anyone in a similar position considering taxation of the public.

Also, I'll say if ships can go on rivers, which at this point, none of the available warships can.

 

[Tyrion]

That is why they are luxury goods no? You dont need them you just want them and if your people want them so bad they'll pay our merchants what they're being sold for and if demand is enough there will always be merchants from nations with colonial possessions making the trip to your poor landlocked lands to sell you sugar and coffee and such luxuries as pepper etc

 

[bombshoo]

I found this site about trade products in the early modern period. I thought it might give other players some ideas for economic development and trade. It's very useful for showing what products were grown/produced where and why this was. http://bell.lib.umn.edu/Products/Products.html

 

[Milarqui]

Woot! I'll make sure to use this as a good guide to find new products. I already have access to chinchona bark, cocoa, cochineal, coffee, pearls, porcelain (through Philippines), potato, saffron (Murcia is one of the biggest producers of saffron in the world), sea otter, sugar (we may have lost Cuba, but we still have Puerto Rico), and tobacco, among many other things.

 

[civver_764]

To: Bavaria
From: Dutch Republic
CC: Everyone involved with an economic cooperation pact

Due to recent revelations from God, we're going to pull out. Our tariffs stand.

 

[bombshoo]

sugar (we may have lost Cuba, but we still have Puerto Rico)

Don't forget the Canary Islands.

 

[spryllino]

Bavaria, too, must, unfortunately, declare that it no longer supports any economic co-operation along the Rhine, Weser, Werra, Adriatic, Main or Danube, and fully renounces the Treaty of Fiume.

OOC: EQ, could you ignore anything to the contrary in our orders and keep import tariffs up, please?

 

[TheLizardKing]

EQ, I have sent in my orders, but wish for some revisions.. would you accept new orders?

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Yes I would.

 

[Circuit]

Westphalia also pulls out of the economic agreement.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Yes I would.

Alright, sorry about this. I know how annoying that can be.. expect them sometime tonight.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

EDIT: Disregard.

 

[Karalysia]

I contest the claim that there is no industry. The First Industrial Reveloution has/is happend/ing and Britian in partiuclar had cotton mills and looms, and a developing textile industry using watermills and such, there were manufactuerers being set up in Britian and the Americas as early as the 1770's and even before.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

I contest the claim that there is no industry. The First Industrial Reveloution has/is happend/ing and Britian in partiuclar had cotton mills and looms, and a developing textile industry using watermills and such, there were manufactuerers being set up in Britian and the Americas as early as the 1770's and even before.

I did state that there were exceptions to my statements. You are correct, things are just starting at this point in time, but that is only a single nation in the whole of the NES which might have done the same thing. Can you deny my assertions for the rest of Europe? Also, the manufacturies that did exist were the exception, not the rule until after the Napoleonic Wars.

 

[Kentharu]

I was wondering, what caused the HRE to collapse and/or dissolve. Did i miss it somewhere in the back grounds? Napoleon's wars destroyed the HRE when the Emperor abdicated after getting beat on. So what caused it in this TL?

 

[Tyrion]

the HRE was already a ruin before Napoleon, i mean they were still 'there' but there werent much of an Empire, Prussia was running around invading people and the hundreds of tiny little states were constantly being absorbed by each other Napoleon just finished the job and finally put them together, more or less.

Generally speaking the 30 years war before this starts really tore Germany apart it was a catastrophic loss of life and pretty much the single most disastrous war before WW1 as the HRE tore itself apart primarily over religious diferences between the catholics and protestants with foreign assistance.

 

[Kentharu]

Yes but the HRE wasn't even dissolved until after 1800s. I'm not saying its not plausible or possible or anything remotely like that. EQ stated his philosophy about his Alt history (anything is possible) and I pretty much agree. I simply want to know what happened. It can be argued that the HRE might have dissolved on its own, and yes that is very likely, but considering EQ said religion has played less of a role ATL than OTL, the religious impact of Protestants vs Catholics seems even less likely.

Like I said, I want to know what happened. I'm not going to debate the plausibility of it, nor do I particularly care about the plausibility of it.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Well, the reason it was dissolved from my perspective is that installing 100 different little german states on any map would be difficult. I left it ambiguously vague just because there's no real answer I can give here. My own opinion would be that perhaps the Austrian emperor gave it up under some sort of political pressure, but of what kind, I do not know. Perhaps as an olive branch to Prussia after giving them a solid asskicking in Poland? As for religion, I don't recall stating that there was less religious influence in this timeline, in fact I've said the opposite a couple times by accident. I'd say we're about on par with our own timeline, so that could have been a cause, but I'd still like to think that perhaps the emperor gave up the title in exchange for Prussia ceding its claims in the region or over Poland.

 

[bombshoo]

As Austria, this is my opinion on what might be the primary reasons for the early dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire.

I. Both Poland and the Ottoman Empire seem to be more powerful than ootl. This would be mean the Hapsburgs would have to put considerable more effort into Eastern European affairs and would have less time to concentrate on Germany.

II. Stronger Austrian Colonialism could easily lead to the belief that the Empire's interests lay overseas and in Eastern Europe rather than Germany.

III. Related to the above two, perhaps a sort of "reverse nationalism" has began to appear. If Austria sees the Germans as inherently superior to the Slavs and Natives, an idea could prevail that they deserve the right to govern themselves and while Austria may see them as mutual rivals, they may not see it as the right course of action to attempt to govern them. If this is true, the states are literally institutions at this point and dissolving them at this stage would be like proposing to dissolve any established nation-state today.

IV. The lack of a USA or Revolutionary France simply made absolutism and that which goes along with it more acceptable, thus making the existence of states with strong monarchies more acceptable.

 

[Kentharu]

Thank you EQ and bomb. That clears up a few things.