Imperium OffTopicum XIV

[Ailedhoo]

Imperium OffTopicum XIV: Don't Care About Vietnam? Bugger Off!

Seriously, totally OOC moment right now, but the Vietnam fetish is getting out of hand.

OOC: then join the Platonic stance for the Council of Hanoi so that the issue can be resolved as quickly as possible.

 

[danjuno]

@Austria We agree, I am personally interested in what happened in Vienna.

As for Vietnam, if The Platonic Republic is committed to a war with Japan, we must revoke our defensive treaty, as we do not support the Hanoi Council at all. We apologize, but for all the trouble Japan has made, we do not trust it less than some petty warlords. Your war will go nowhere without rallying the entirety of UNVIFOR behind you, which you have failed to achieve. History is filled with too many martyrs and too few living victors.

 

[Ailedhoo]

@Austria We agree, I am personally interested in what happened in Vienna.

As for Vietnam, if The Platonic Republic is committed to a war with Japan, we must revoke our defensive treaty, as we do not support the Hanoi Council at all. We apologize, but for all the trouble Japan has made, we do not trust it less than some petty warlords. Your war will go nowhere without rallying the entirety of UNVIFOR behind you, which you have failed to achieve. History is filled with too many martyrs and too few living victors.

For evil to have victory the good must do nothing.

The Platonic Republic is committed to the sovereignty of Vietnam and the Council of Hanoi are the only option. The "petty warlords" are the elites in Vietnam, hence the road to true sovereignty for Vietnam. We cannot deny it other some naïve hope that good can be of victory even if it does nothing; something has to be done to ensure the defeat of evil and we of the Platonic Republic are committed to JUSTICE!

We are sad the Irish do not share the vision of saving Vietnam from oppression.

 

[Mathalamus]

the Emperor of the Roman Empire has made his choice, after hearing from both the Platonic Republic and the United Arab Republic.

the United Arab Republic won. the Roman Empire will stick with the status quo, and not help the Republic.

Emperor Andreas apologizes to the platonic Republic for choosing the UN over them. if greece is to wage war against japan, they may do so, alone. without support. at all.

we still dont want Japan control of Greece proper, if it all goes south, though.

 

[Ailedhoo]

What did the UAR say?

 

[christos200]

We are sad the Irish do not share the vision of saving Vietnam from oppression.

Indeed, it must be sad to you that the world does not share your vision of supporting the same Warlords who genocide and kill of an entire generation of Vietnamese in countless battles between themselves and are not able to cooperate even in the most basic internal matters.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Indeed, it must be sad to you that the world does not share your vision of supporting the same Warlords who genocide and kill of an entire generation of Vietnamese in countless battles between themselves and are not able to cooperate even in the most basic internal matters.

It is ironic that a government who called the UN mission "colonial" must paint a "savages, killing each other because they have no white Japanese directive."

Your lies do not hide the truth that the Hanoi Council are the nobler side, Japan. We picked the side of JUSTICE! However... with Rome out the picture it appears the world is full of cowards, our brave Protective Caste and Vietnam's freedom fighters are obvious exceptions.

 

[Mathalamus]

What did the UAR say?

the United Arab republics said this

The United Nations Vietnam Intervention Force was established to end the internal violence and help establish a stable government and lasting peace. Its mandate was never predicated on aggression: the force is there to protect civilians, which in its execution may, and indeed has required, use of lethal force against warlord parties. But the crucial fact is that its underlying methodology is defensive.

Greece's actions, by contrast, are fundamentally offensive: its rhetoric is highly provocative and it is advocating full-scale invasion of Japanese-held territory. It is precisely the same methodology used by Japan in China and Vietnam, and that UNVIFOR was established in an attempt to forestall: whatever Athens' claims about humanitarian ideals, what their plan actually entails is combat with the Japanese military first, and only afterward safeguarding civilians.

Greece paints the UN's unwillingness to back up this invasion as waffling; the truth is, UNVIFOR is merely adhering to its original mandate, a mandate that Athens accepted by pledging support to the mission, but in its jingoistic bloodlust Athens has scorned these values because it wants short-term change now. Greece's demand for open war with Japan is an attempt to drastically expand UNVIFOR's mandate well beyond its accepted parameters, and its willingness to jeopardize the neutrality of UN-held territory toward this goal betrays its abhorrent contempt for the original initiative.

I have to go soon and won't be back for the rest of the night, so I'll sum up the dilemma thusly: Greece thinks progress is too slow and a full-scale war with Japan is the only way to unify Vietnam. But its brinkmanship is trying to force the rest of UNVIFOR into a mission that it never signed up for, and throwing around ultimatums means we don't have time to actually debate it with a clear head, which is immensely irresponsible when so many lives, specifically Vietnamese, are on the line. Ailed can go to war with Japan if he wants (assuming he can handle the defensive pacts a unilateral invasion is sure to invoke), but the United Nations should not be internationally disgraced by his quite irrational aggression.

bolded parts for emphasis.

 

[Ailedhoo]

...and so we are compared to Japan in the 1930s, while Japan can continue to act like Japan in the 1930s without hindrance.

We would not have been in this mess if Japan had not declared war on the Hanoi Council. Where is the denouncement of Japan? We are/were taking action to protect the Hanoi Council.

As for the defence pacts; Japan declared war on Hanoi. Defence Pacts do not work when it comes to aggressors like Japan.

We are awaiting the word of Sìchuān; we have set a request to them on the matter. They are our now final allies in this matter. Rome has turned its back on its glories, to the shame of its ancestors. The UAR has, in blindness, allowed Japan to openly attack Vietnam, yet wants to punish us for wanting to protect Vietnam.

If UNVIFOR must keep to a stone mandate then, like those who take Appeasement in Europe, it will come to be bitten in the end.

Still... we await Sìchuān. Then the Philosopher Council will gather to judge the emergency directive of Takis Papadakis.

OOC: in other words I am sensing internal consideration within the Republic...

 

[Mathalamus]

...and so we are compared to Japan in the 1930s, while Japan can continue to act like Japan in the 1930s without hindrance.

the UN is a hinderance... and so are we, honestly.

As for the defence pacts; Japan declared war on Hanoi. Defence Pacts do not work when it comes to aggressors like Japan.

we did not even recognize the Hanoi until well after it occurred, thus, it can be treated as a seperate conflict.

We are awaiting the word of Sìchuān; we have set a request to them on the matter. They are our now final allies in this matter. Rome has turned its back on its glories, to the shame of its ancestors. The UAR has, in blindness, allowed Japan to openly attack Vietnam, yet wants to punish us for wanting to protect Vietnam.

you need to protect Vietnam properly. defend aganst japanese invasions. safegaurd the lives of civilians there. do not attack the home islands. only defend against attacks.

If UNVIFOR must keep to a stone mandate then, like those who take Appeasement in Europe, it will come to be bitten in the end.

as i said, we are well aware of Japans aggression. but, you need a coalition of more than one or two members to do it.

mind you, if Japan does start conquering Greece, and the platonic Republic is unable to respond to their attacks, the Roman Empire will offer that the Republic surrender to us, and negotiate with japan to return the conquered territories.

(OOC: i know, not the kindest or most subtle of plans, but, what else could i do?)

 

[Ailedhoo]

So you forsake the idea of us as friends for the sake of appeasement?

We will not be on the side of the history that is of cowards, especially ones who would sacrifice comradeship for the sake of... petty minded nature.

What happened to Rome to have its Romanism suddenly vanish, replaced by a shadow of its former self?

We await at the gates of Henoi... we will defend the Council, even if it means evacuating it to Greece if we have to.

 

[Mathalamus]

So you forsake the idea of us as friends for the sake of appeasement?

We will not be on the side of the history that is of cowards, especially ones who would sacrifice comradeship for the sake of... petty minded nature.

What happened to Rome to have its Romanism suddenly vanish, replaced by a shadow of its former self?

We await at the gates of Henoi... we will defend the Council, even if it means evacuating it to Greece if we have to.

for the record, this is why im so indecisive... would you rather we turn our back on the UN, the UAR, and all that, to join you in a most likely hopeless battle? the UAR will be pissed. everyone in the UN will be pissed. my repuation will be destroyed, if it wasnt already.

damn it, now we have to think it over. again.

 

[Ailedhoo]

for the record, this is why im so indecisive... would you rather we turn our back on the UN, the UAR, and all that, to join you in a most likely hopeless battle? the UAR will be pissed. everyone in the UN will be pissed. my repuation will be destroyed, if it wasnt already.

damn it, now we have to think it over. again.

If we turn our backs on Vietnam by not helping the Council then the war will go longer and a longer war means more bloodshed.

We are currently considering a evaluation plan for the Council so that they and us can be prepared. This is a desperate act but the lack of support for our selfless mission leaves us little choice; the alterative is to back down, saying "you can be aggressive Japan" which would be a insult to justice.

We are committed to the salvation of Vietnam.

 

[Civ'ed]

Damn this all to hell, I quit. If I wanted to play a game about Vietnam I'd join a Vietnam-War-based IOT.

 

[Mathalamus]

If we turn our backs on Vietnam by not helping the Council then the war will go longer and a longer war means more bloodshed.

We are committed to the salvation of Vietnam.

that is true, the bloodshed of protecting Vietnam, probably failing, the bloodshed over Greece when Japan conquers it, and more bloodshed when Rome tries to liberate the region...

if Rome joins, the blood in the homelands may not happen, but we would be open to attacks from other UN members...

 

[Ailedhoo]

Then we will evaluate the Council to the Med. Its the only action we can do.

Fear not; if the UN is so fearful of Vietnam that it would not stand up to Japan...

 

[Mathalamus]

Then we will evaluate the Council to the Med. Its the only action we can do.

Fear not; if the UN is so fearful of Vietnam that it would not stand up to Japan...

Thats fine. just know this: the defensive pact we have?

we can modify it so that it brings Rome into the war when or if Japan manages to conquer any territory bordering the Mediterranean sea. we may not want to join your offensive war, but we are not gonna let Greece fall to japan!

 

[Ailedhoo]

Understood; we are focused and committed to the survival of the Hanoi Council till at least we have confirmation chance that Vietnam will be independent. Consider us hosting the exiled Hanoi government.

We ask the UN to understand that our efforts are now protective without the need of direct action against Japan... at the moment. Instead we await for the best time to reinstall the sovereign Hanoi Council.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

Monaco's Emperor Peter II proposes a radical idea:

"Maybe the conflict in Vietnam should be left to the Vietnamese."

Claim 4 Italian territories.

 

[Mosher]

Monaco's Emperor Peter II proposes a radical idea:

"Maybe the conflict in Vietnam should be left to the Vietnamese."

Claim 4 Italian territories.

The United States expresses agreement with the Monacan emperor. Nations should express their own sovereignty and fight their own battles.