In which we Discuss the Quality of OT

[Mulholland]

So we've had a couple people leave the boards recently citing the declining quality of OT.

Myself I haven't particularly notice a huge decline in quality, merely a dry spell in which threads of little consequence have been posted. I imagine this usually happens around election time when the partisans come out in full force.

So this thread, which will hopefully not be closed by a mod is to ask what can be done to improve OT for those people think it is descending. Honestly, I think the more posters we keep the better so please voice your concerns here before you go AWOL.

 

[Red Door]

The only way to improve it is for people (no matter who they are) to post good posts.

 

[Moss]

I think the maturity level of OT is lacking. Not that young posters are bad, or immature old posters are bad in themselves, we are all immature sometimes, but it seems that OT has a multitude of such posters which really makes the atmosphere one of arguments, and bickering.

I don't think I could ever question the intelligent level of OT posters, we have some brilliant ones, but communication skills and debating skills and the need for personal attacks and just plain silliness over logic and reason seems to be the problem.

 

[dutchfire]

You must be the change you wish to see in OT.

XCL

 

[Bill3000]

More plotinus and fredLC, less people who think that liberty means no taxation (or that "liberty" is a reason against anything) or anti-Hillary hysteria or 9/11 truthers.

If there's going to be prodding and trolling, make it funny ones, not lame ones. If you're going to seriously debate, use the principle of charity and don't question your opponent's motives. Realize that rationality isn't what is needed to convince someone; rhetoric is, and if you have no goal (or more likely, no ability) in actually convincing someone anything, either make your posts worthwhile or don't post in the first place.

 

[Strider]

The quality of OT has been declining steadily for awhile now. It has become almost impossible to have a debate without trolling, flaming, or insults. The maturity level has declined since 2006. It also doesn't help that some users seem to take pride in gang banging others. It has become more of a play house for a select group of users than a place for reasonable discussion. The large number of stupid threads (Who's The Sexiest Dicatator?) that has popped up in the last month or so hasn't helped.

I think most of it could be helped if the mods were more strict. Don't allow trolling/flaming/insults of any level and delete/close useless spam threads.

 

[Marsden]

I'm not very experienced with OT, but I think the thing that is missing more than "maturity" is "civility" Posters have become very rude and base. That, and my lack of debate skills have taught me to keep away except for the occasional happy birthday.

 

[Grisu]

More plotinus and fredLC, less people who think that liberty means no taxation (or that "liberty" is a reason against anything) or anti-Hillary hysteria or 9/11 truthers.

it's not the opinions, it's the way some people express theirs. and that goes for atheists, christians, conservatives, liberals, libertarians and whatnot the same.

In general the low-quality posts, trolls and flames seem to come in waves, in a few days or weeks it will most likely to have blown over.

 

[Bill3000]

I think most of it could be helped if the mods were more strict. Don't allow trolling/flaming/insults of any level and delete/close useless spam threads.

Speaking as one who is far more experienced in the OT than you, this is not the case. If it was the case that strict modding would be a large enough incentive to get people to stop sucking, it would have not degraded to the level it is in the first place, because the strict modding came before the quality drop.

it's not the opinions, it's the way some people express theirs. and that goes for atheists, christians, conservatives, liberals, libertarians and whatnot the same.

No, that's false. It's both, and especially including the naivety of the OT on all counts. Granted it may be the fact that people are young there, but that's not an excuse to not learn better.

 

[Strider]

Speaking as one who is far more experienced in the OT than you, this is not the case.

and this is exactly what I was referring to.

 

[LucyDuke]

I'm not very experienced with OT, but I think the thing that is missing more than "maturity" is "civility" Posters have become very rude and base.

I agree with this. And civility is part of maturity.

When someone says something I disagree with, I try not to say "wow, this is why you're an idiot", instead, I'll go with "I completely disagree, and this is why." I try not to start skewing things someone else has said just to make them angry. Too many posters are looking for a fight rather than a discussion.

I've ended a few of my discussions (debates?) on OT with each of us saying "well, you've clearly thought out your view, and I respect your opinion. I don't think we're going to convince each other, but thanks for the discussion." It's infinitely more satisfying than "HAHAHA I PWND U ".

Sometimes the trolls and flames are really funny, but those ones are very rare. Most posters that think they are funny really aren't.

 

[Bill3000]

and this is exactly what I was referring to.

Congrats for ignoring the content of my post; my point was that strict modding does not guarantee an increase in forum quality, because it has not done so in the past.

 

[Catharsis]

All this talk of doom and gloom seems a bit pessimistic, I honestly think this is the best Off-Topic forum I have found on any games website. Civilization really seems to attract a broad spectrum of intelligent people with many different and interesting ideas on politics, science and religion.
Ok, so theres some spam to sift through on many (most/all) days, but I have yet to find a more entertaining way to get the news, and not just the news, but many varied and (sometimes) insightful opinions on the news.

I agree with the above statement (from the Comings/Goings thread). There's nothing really wrong with OT, especially not if you compare it to most of the web. Granted, there are a few trolls, and they're annoying, but the main problem that a lot of people seem to have (and I may be wrong here) is that many OT posters can't debate. But it's unreasonable to expect people to know all the laws of logic before posting in OT... a lot of them (me included) just wander in and post in the funny threads.

Another thing: non-serious threads aren't necessarily spam, as Strider seems to be insinuating. Although 'who is the sexiest dictator' is not a serious discussion, it is a discussion, and OT is a discussion forum.

Finally: OT moves in cycles, doesn't it? I remember a period when I was lurking when every other thread was a religion thread, but that stopped. So will this! Don't worry.

EDIT: Oh, and stricter modding is not the answer. Case in point: CivUnited.

 

[Strider]

Congrats for ignoring the content of my post; my point was that strict modding does not guarantee an increase in forum quality, because it has not done so in the past.

When I posted in OT regularly (2003-2004) the "Who's The Sexiest Dictator?" thread wouldn't have made it 12 hours before being closed. The moderation has gotten less strict over time. I'm not saying that the current moderators have been bad, but the definition of what is considered acceptable has changed over time.

 

[Bill3000]

When I posted in OT regularly (2003-2004) the "Who's The Sexiest Dictator?" thread wouldn't have made it 12 hours before being closed. The moderation has gotten less strict over time.

Perhaps, but that is not the same thing as a more serious problem, that of the trolling/flaming in essentially off-limits discussions because no one can convince anyone else of anything. And even then, funny trolling or spam is not a problem per se; it's trolling and spam that lacks any artistic or comedic merit, which is in the vast majority of cases. I'm looking at the "Waterboarding = Torture" thread, for example.

 

[Strider]

And even then, funny trolling or spam is not a problem per se; it's trolling and spam that lacks any artistic or comedic merit, which is in the vast majority of cases.

Possibly, but it would be impossible to fairly judge what is considered funny or not. Regardless, the purpose of OT is not to be funny. We have Humor & Jokes for that.

 

[Bill3000]

Possibly, but it would be impossible to fairly judge what is considered funny or not. Regardless, the purpose of OT is not to be funny. We have Humor & Jokes for that.

The purpose of Humor and Jokes is to be funny? Perhaps, but that's not what it is even remotely; that has far more of a spam problem than the OT itself. The type of humor I'm talking about is forum humor anyway; it's part of the medium. It has nothing to do with a random "stop me if you heard this before" type of joke.

As for being impossible to fairly judge what is funny or not, that's false.

 

[Catharsis]

Are you sure the quality of OT has changed, Strider? 'Cos I went back in the archives (to mid-2002) and found these beauties that wouldn't be out of place today:

# Do you get high?
# Best eating utensil
# So now what do I do with my life?
# What Would You Do With 1 Dollar?
# Fun way to waste your time...
# Sexual Harrasment?
# Canada the Police State!
# Do Not Be Deceived
# This is the LORDs place
# Communism IV
# The Great Tomato Debate
# If You Were An Evil Dictator, Would You Be Religious?
# Civfanatics locations
# Go Pills/No-Go Pills
# Moon Landing A Hoax?
# Why do Americans eat peanut butter?
# Peanut butter is dangerous
# Nostalgia.

The last one's quite appropriate.

 

[Bill3000]

Yeah, topics like those are a problem, not something for people to aim for... That's often nothing more than silly youth crap, not something that people are meant to debate seriously about.

 

[Strider]

As for being impossible to fairly judge what is funny or not, that's false.

Care to explain why? People have various opinions. I utterly dislike what you could call "fart & poop" humor. There is various other things that I think are pretty much idiotic, but I'll leave it to that. I think we have quite a few peoples who's sense of humor would violate current forum rules.