Incentives under communism?

[NinjaCow64]

Under Hitler, unless you were a Jew, you had better chance of surviving than Cambodian slave.

If you collaborated with Hitler. I simply wouldn’t collaborate with Hitler.

I wonder if you've ever contemplated the implications of preferring under Pol Pot the same way you consider preferring living under Hitler.

I never said I would prefer to live under Pol Pot. I would not want to live under either and I would not collaborate with either regime.

 

[Zardnaar]

If you collaborated with Hitler. I simply wouldn’t collaborate with Hitler.


I never said I would prefer to live under Pol Pot. I would not want to live under either and I would not collaborate with either regime.

You still haven't explained how you plan on eating after the revolution. You need young zard or someone like him to feed you or do it yourself.

Or force young Zard to feed you.

Have fun eating the political theory. I'm not feeding you so you can sit around drinking coffee and discussing
political theory.
You can come work on the farm yourself or figure out some incentive for young zard to feed you.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Capitalism can and should exist as a checked and balanced force in politically plural system.

But it doesn’t and never has. Whenever Communists play by the rules of liberal democracy and win like in Chile, or Communists gain a large amount of influence in a non-Communist country like Indonesia then the Capitalists get pissed and start killing everyone.

I am confident in a fair competition that most people would choose Communism. But the world isn’t fair and Capitalism plays dirty, so we will do what me must.

 

[Sarin]

If you collaborated with Hitler. I simply wouldn’t collaborate with Hitler.


I never said I would prefer to live under Pol Pot. I would not want to live under either and I would not collaborate with either regime.

The question posited was either-or. Zardnaar answered it that way. You try to avoid answering, and yet try to claim moral high ground.

There is also a question of what constitutes as collaboration. Does complying with work orders and passively staying out of sight constitute as collaboration? If so, everyone who wasn't executed in Cambodia during Pol Pot's regime was collaborator. If not, then there was a way how to not collaborate and survive even under Hitler's regime.

 

[Zardnaar]

@Gorbles you actually answer stuff. How do you plan on eating post revolution?

 

[Sarin]

But it doesn’t and never has. Whenever Communists play by the rules of liberal democracy and win like in Chile, or Communists gain a large amount of influence in a non-Communist country like Indonesia then the Capitalists get pissed and start killing everyone.

I am confident in a fair competition that most people would choose Communism. But the world isn’t fair and Capitalism plays dirty, so we will do what me must.

Straight from the Marxism-Leninism playbook. "They're the enemies because they disagree with us and that empowers us to do everything necessary to win.". Heard that before. It's still coming from Russia. And result is always the same. Thousands or millions innocent killed.

 

[NinjaCow64]

I find it ludicrous to claim that anyone who was not a Jew would be safer under Nazi Germany. Like I’m a bisexual non-binary trans woman what do you think Hitler would have to me?

 

[NinjaCow64]

"They're the enemies because they disagree with us and that empowers us to do everything necessary to win.".

“They’re the enemies because they went town to town and killed anyone they suspected of being a Communist paraded our heads around the country.”

You should really read up on the mass slaughter of Communists in Indonesia and also what Pinochet did to Chile.

 

[NinjaCow64]

The question posited was either-or. Zardnaar answered it that way. You try to avoid answering, and yet try to claim moral high ground.

I reject binary questions with no good answers.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I am confident in a fair competition that most people would choose Communism. But the world isn’t fair and Capitalism plays dirty, so we will do what me must.

I am confident that communism would lose even if it was multiple choice in a fair competition. But the world isn't fair and everyone plays dirty to sway the votes. And so we have a muddle where the ideologues are all unhappy and the rest of us make do with what we have.

 

[Zardnaar]

I find it ludicrous to claim that anyone who was not a Jew would be safer under Nazi Germany. Like I’m a bisexual non-binary trans woman what do you think Hitler would have to me?

Dont think you would be any safer under Stalin, Pol Pot or Mao tbh.

But that's the poo sandwich various people were faced with in Eastern Europe. Hitler, Stalin pick your poison collaborate or not or keep head down.

You still haven't answered me why should young Zard feed you? I seem to be the only one here who has worked on a farm. It's literally the entire point of the thread.

I assume you haven't worked on an outback station in Australia or picked fruit?

Ironically you need people like me to feed people like you.

 

[NinjaCow64]

If not, then there was a way how to not collaborate and survive even under Hitler's regime.

If your neighbours are taken away by the Gestapo and you could have helped them but you chose not to you were a collaborator - plain and simple.

What’s the etymology of your name btw?

 

[Zardnaar]

“They’re the enemies because they went town to town and killed anyone they suspected of being a Communist paraded our heads around the country.”

You should really read up on the mass slaughter of Communists in Indonesia and also what Pinochet did to Chile.

Maybe they're killing them because they knew what woukd happen to them if they won?

Context look at the failed Communist regimes of the 20th century. That's what they were trying to impose not some idealistic version of it.

Vietnam war after the evil Americans left north won. Re-education camps, agricultural collapse, boat people fleeing the regime. One good thing they did was depose Pol Pot.

Killing communists, fascists and ISIS members or any other fanatic who wants to kill you makes a certain amount of sense yes?

Most people faced with threats will fight back, flee or keep mouth shut.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Maybe they're killing them because they knew what woukd happen to them if they won?

They killed killed entire families, Zardnaar. The elderly, infants even.

 

[Farm Boy]

Food is magic zard.

In that way, it's sort of like communist thought. Dissent just <poof> disappears!

 

[Ajidica]

But it doesn’t and never has. Whenever Communists play by the rules of liberal democracy and win like in Chile, or Communists gain a large amount of influence in a non-Communist country like Indonesia then the Capitalists get pissed and start killing everyone.

I must have missed the "Capitalists get pissed and start killing everyone" in France.

Founded in 1920, it participated in three governments: the provisional government of the Liberation (1944–1947), at the beginning of François Mitterrand's presidency (1981–1984), and in the Plural Left cabinet led by Lionel Jospin (1997–2002).

It was also the largest party on the left in France in a number of national elections, from 1945 to 1960, before falling behind the Socialist Party in the 1970s. The PCF has lost further ground to the Socialists since that time.

The "get pissed and start killing everyone" group was the OAS, and they were more concerned about that *checks notes* totally not communist Charles deGaulle. Meanwhile the French Section of the Workers International and their sucessor party was a major player in French politics for decades, electing multiple Presidents of France.

Even talking about the UK and GB75 gets us nowhere close to "Communists* gain a large amount of influence and then the Capitalists start killing everyone".
*Replacing the communists with far left trade unionism as the Soviet Union did an excellent job discrediting the CPGB by invading Czechoslovakia when their colonial possession dared break away from imperial rule.

 

[Sarin]

I find it ludicrous to claim that anyone who was not a Jew would be safer under Nazi Germany. Like I’m a bisexual non-binary trans woman what do you think Hitler would have to me?

Safer than under Pol Pot, yes. There were ways to survive without collaboration in much better shape than you'd be if you were a Cambodian slave. My country was occupied by Nazi Germany for six years, and most people survived.

“They’re the enemies because they went town to town and killed anyone they suspected of being a Communist paraded our heads around the country.”

You should really read up on the mass slaughter of Communists in Indonesia and also what Pinochet did to Chile.

I suggest that you reexamine the notion that American imperialism is somehow intrinsic to capitalism. It's not. Most capitalistic countries live without engaging in it.
Communist countries, on the other hand...well, I actually can't think of any that didn't have its share of massacres. It is inherent, because it's the basic tenet of Marxism, one that you've repeated here.

If your neighbours are taken away by the Gestapo and you could have helped them but you chose not to you were a collaborator - plain and simple.

What’s the etymology of your name btw?

It's easy to talk. Hope you'll never find out whether this bravery lasts when you actually have a gun in your face.

As for the nickname, it's actually a funny story related to the time when my diet caused some extreme flatulence. Why do you ask, is your nickname related to following the herd to the slaughterhouse?

 

[Zardnaar]

They killed killed entire families, Zardnaar. The elderly, infants even.

Yup and this is why I'm against political extremism it doesn't tend to end well. All empires are built on blood same with revolutions.

1917 was two revolutions ge Tsar was already g9be. They killed his daughters. Him maybe wife bit of a stretch.

And yet I get called an evil centrist. Or fascist.

Most demands communism has can be met under Social Democracy. Communusm wouldn't generate the drugs you want for example.

Problem with Social democracy is you can convince the voters sonething else is better.

Which leads to sane problem with communism people either willingly embrace it and can change ot if they want or you impose it by force.

You still haven't answered my point btw why should young Zard feed you?

 

[NinjaCow64]

I suggest that you reexamine the notion that American imperialism is somehow intrinsic to capitalism. It's not. Most capitalistic countries live without engaging in it.

I didn’t just say American Imperialism. Tell me, what country in the world hasn’t done an Imperialism or hasn’t been the victim of Imperialism? I don’t think you’ll be able to name even one.

It's easy to talk.

Yet some in this thread can’t even do that…

 

[NinjaCow64]

Yup and this is why I'm against political extremism it doesn't tend to end well.

Well at least we can agree on something - we both hate the extremist CIA that assisted the Indonesian government in performing this horrific mass slaughter.