India Total Peaceful Photojournal

[Minh Le]

Hello guys, heres another update of the photojournal.
In the last part, Ive just enhanced my religion and pick up Mastery and Iconography. Iconography is a very powerful belief, I will progress rapidly in the late stage of the game in science, while my culture will not progress at the same speed, I will need Iconography badly if I want to grab those Wonders. As for Mastery, I actually want to go double building as India but Synaguages and Mosques are both gone, theres not many options left, so I decided to pick Mastery. I will work lost of specialists and Mastery can provide good yield, and the extra GAP is useful too.

Spoiler The empire at war :

Im still at war with both Polynessia and Korea, but my army is bigger now. I have 7 skirmishers and its plenty to defend thanks to my very defensive city location.
I keep a skirmisher in Pataliputra to catch those Missionary Korea send to China. All of my cities still function nicely, they are still building up those basic building. Im almost done improving resources, and my UB is almost done in the capital, Im gonna make farms now.
Farms for India is actually very strong. I never make a lot of farm playing other civ. But for India I will make as many farms as possible. I find that working farm and specialist slot as India is extremely effective. It not only give good yield, but also give lots of GPP.

Spoiler Progress completed :

I complete Progress on turn 192, not too late on Epic speed. The past few turns, Ive been building lots of cheap buildings and it net me nice amount of culture.

Spoiler Killing missionary :

This is the 3rd guys I caught already, Korea sure is sending a lot. Given the amount of missionary Korea is making, I decided to purchase some Inquisitor for garison in my cities. I will make 3 of them, and move them around when I see those Korea missionary. If you dont want the micro, just buy one in each city, but I kinda need the faith now. Im almost get to Theology (just after Drama and Poetry), so I can try to shot Hagia Sophia for the Great Prophet to convert China. Way of Transcendence is very good for wonder sniping.

Spoiler And they want peace :

Those 2, both ask for peace in the same turn. They literally do no damage to me. I give Polynessia peace, but not Korea now. I want to be at war so I can catch his Missionary to China, so we will be at war until war weariness hit me.

Spoiler Missionary hunting squad :

3 Skirmishers stay there solely for catching those Missionary . After I build those temples, my Pressure will be enough to keep the religion in my cities.

Haha Found you.

Spoiler Theology researched :

Turn 205, Ive advanced to Medieval, Im still behind in tech but not too far. Im about 4 or 5 techs behind China and 3 Policies behind. Unfortunately, Hagia Sophia is gone the turn before I got the tech, so no free Prophet then, I will have to generate my own prophet.

Spoiler Way of Transcendence :

This Founder Belief is very good for catching up quick. The bonus could be much more if I was able to convert china sooner, but I guess I choose the safer option to enhance first. It turned out that no other AI was able to enhance even at the time of my next prophet. But if I choose again, I will still decide to enhance first. Not being able to convert some cities just make me lose some yield, but not being able to pick Iconography would make me lose game. Oh, and I catch another Missionary. Ive killed a ton of them.

Spoiler Next Social Policy Tree :

I unlocked my next Social Policy Tree on turn 213. I stoped to think a while here. Statecraft seem very strong, but 25% Great Person rates is huge. I almost decided to pick the Artistry Opener then go the rest Statecraft, but I havent done enough of experiment so in the end, I decided to stick to the plan and go Artistry. And China also go Artistry as well.

Spoiler Catching up quick :

Turn 215, 10 turns after I researched Theology, I was able to researched Civil Service. Im only 3 techs behind China now, and Im sure no one have Civil Service yet, so Im gonna give Forbidden Palace a shot.

That's it for this part. Thank you guys for reading

 

[Minh Le]

Cathedrals boost Farms as well.

Wow I never notice that. I dont know why but I really do not think about Cathedrals as an option at all

 

[John.B.C]

I'm just waiting eagerly for if you managed to builld that wonder or not; what a cliffhanger.

 

[Owlbebach]

Cathedrals boost Farms as well.

They of course do boost farms but in the end you get ~7-8 gold per city from them. Thats not too much. Cathedrals really do work great if you are on Plains biom with lots of Horses and something like God of Open Sky (ideally you should also be Poland). But for India i found Cathedrals to be significantly worse than Mandirs. Mandirs will easily give you ~15-20 food per city and and i found food to be more valuable than gold.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

They of course do boost farms but in the end you get ~7-8 gold per city from them. Thats not too much. Cathedrals really do work great if you are on Plains biom with lots of Horses and something like God of Open Sky (ideally you should also be Poland). But for India i found Cathedrals to be significantly worse than Mandirs. Mandirs will easily give you ~15-20 food per city and and i found food to be more valuable than gold.

Still the option to go for Mandir + Cathedral
Thrift may give more gold and you have to invest faith in it, but till you are in industrial, you have not much else to spend your faith on. And it also increase your faith generation, the religious pressure (multiplicativly) and reduce poverty. And it should trigger the culture from buildings policy.
But I noticed, Thrift is still one of the best picks, if you already generate 1000 science and get 150 more by 10 cities, it's an increase of 15%, but if you generate 200 excess gold and get 150 more by 10 cities, that's an increase by 75%.

 

[Owlbebach]

Still the option to go for Mandir + Cathedral
Thrift may give more gold and you have to invest faith in it, but till you are in industrial, you have not much else to spend your faith on. And it also increase your faith generation, the religious pressure (multiplicativly) and reduce poverty. And it should trigger the culture from buildings policy.
But I noticed, Thrift is still one of the best picks, if you already generate 1000 science and get 150 more by 10 cities, it's an increase of 15%, but if you generate 200 excess gold and get 150 more by 10 cities, that's an increase by 75%.

Mandir + Synagogue seems like a better option
You can invest faith into many things - in case of India - into Prophets that can convert your neighbor. Or into Monasteries. Or save it and invest into Great Scientists later.
I almost never pick Thrift, i don't think it is that strong. Your logic is wrong because you need to compare it to your gold revenue, not income. Most of this gold is spent on buildings and units, but this is kinda what gold is for.

 

[ElliotS]

Remember to build roads towards china to help convert them / keep them converted. Great job so far!

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Mandir + Synagogue seems like a better option
You can invest faith into many things - in case of India - into Prophets that can convert your neighbor. Or into Monasteries. Or save it and invest into Great Scientists later.
I almost never pick Thrift, i don't think it is that strong. Your logic is wrong because you need to compare it to your gold revenue, not income. Most of this gold is spent on buildings and units, but this is kinda what gold is for.

He didnt go fealty, so the only option he have is buying faith buildings or prophets.
And you cant save faith, you are always forced to buy a prophet if you have the necessary amount of faith. Unless you want those prophets, faith buildings are a good option to spend your faith till you reach industrial era. If you have reached the industrial era, they should have already paid back the greatest part of their ivestment cost and you are able to buy more GP you really want, instead of Great Prophets.
And no, I think I compare it with the income, cause its that what count.

 

[Questdog]

He didnt go fealty, so the only option he have is buying faith buildings or prophets.
And you cant save faith, you are always forced to buy a prophet if you have the necessary amount of faith. Unless you want those prophets, faith buildings are a good option to spend your faith till you reach industrial era. If you have reached the industrial era, they should have already paid back the greatest part of their ivestment cost and you are able to buy more GP you really want, instead of Great Prophets.
And no, I think I compare it with the income, cause its that what count.

Gold has no value until you spend it. So to make the comparison valid you need to count how much it increases what you can spend, which would include what you are already committed to spending. Under your logic I would get a 260% raise at work if I go from $10 per hour to $11 per hour if I have bills and expenses that take $375 a week to cover.

Edit: The reason why Science, Culture and Hammers are stronger overall than Gold and Faith is that you need opportunities to spend your Gold and Faith, but the opportunity is always there to spend all of your Science, Culture and Hammers.

 

[chicorbeef]

They of course do boost farms but in the end you get ~7-8 gold per city from them. Thats not too much. Cathedrals really do work great if you are on Plains biom with lots of Horses and something like God of Open Sky (ideally you should also be Poland). But for India i found Cathedrals to be significantly worse than Mandirs. Mandirs will easily give you ~15-20 food per city and and i found food to be more valuable than gold.

You're forgetting that the 1 Gold from Farms becomes 2 during Golden Ages, which is why I mentioned it's particulaly good for Artistry India. It quickly produces 10+ Gold in all your cities and approaches 20 GPT per city later on.

I'm not advocating for it against Mandirs, but I do think it's better than Mastery.

It also produces Gold on border expansion.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Gold has no value until you spend it. So to make the comparison valid you need to count how much it increases what you can spend, which would include what you are already committed to spending. Under your logic I would get a 260% raise at work if I go from $10 per hour to $11 per hour if I have bills and expenses that take $375 a week to cover.

Edit: The reason why Science, Culture and Hammers are stronger overall than Gold and Faith is that you need opportunities to spend your Gold and Faith, but the opportunity is always there to spend all of your Science, Culture and Hammers.

You cant imagine how to spend your gold?
There are two things why Thrift is in most cases better than the other yield beliefs. First, gold is so flexible, you can buy units, upgrade units, speed up buildings, buy ressources, use it in diplomacy. Useful in any case.
Second, 15 hammers is of course more worth than 15 gold, but like culture and science, you need 30 follower to reach the cap, while you only need 15 to reach the maximum for gold. It looks like most people see a city size of 25-30 already as big, and reach those values maybe in modern era. So you need atleast till modern era till you reach the cap, while you can reach the cap of gold much faster. Even more, you may not be able to even reach the 30 cap, if there is more than your own religion on the same continent. If you have reached the population to get the full reward, the cost for inquisitors to get this full reward are very expensive.

 

[chicorbeef]

By the way this is a really good photojournal! Good job, I like your decision making in particular and cool tricks (like the Missionary hunting )

I have never played India wide (Progress-Artistry is something I only do with Polynesia... sometimes I mix Artistry/Statecraft with civs like Morocco) so this is certainly something new to me.

I wonder if Artistry is in the end the best option. The thing with India's growth is it feeds off itself. More Food = more followers = more pressures = more followers = more food (growth). +50% pressure is no joke either.

However with a specialist heavy strategy like yours I suppose Artistry would in the end triumph.

Also I don't think mixing is necessarily a bad choice, you could go Artistry to get the +1 Culture from Specialists s policy and then switch

Enhancing fast is essential for India because enhanced religions have higher pressure

What? How does this work? Do you get +25% pressure from an enhanced religion or something?

 

[CrazyG]

I worry this thread has become a bit too cluttered with a strategy debate, and not the photojournal.

I'm impressed with how many cities he has settled. That is a lot of land to control.

 

[Minh Le]

Gold has no value until you spend it. So to make the comparison valid you need to count how much it increases what you can spend, which would include what you are already committed to spending. Under your logic I would get a 260% raise at work if I go from $10 per hour to $11 per hour if I have bills and expenses that take $375 a week to cover.

Edit: The reason why Science, Culture and Hammers are stronger overall than Gold and Faith is that you need opportunities to spend your Gold and Faith, but the opportunity is always there to spend all of your Science, Culture and Hammers.

Thats exactly what im thinking.

 

[Bromar1]

They of course do boost farms but in the end you get ~7-8 gold per city from them. Thats not too much. Cathedrals really do work great if you are on Plains biom with lots of Horses and something like God of Open Sky (ideally you should also be Poland). But for India i found Cathedrals to be significantly worse than Mandirs. Mandirs will easily give you ~15-20 food per city and and i found food to be more valuable than gold.

Maybe cathedrals should get +10% gold to be more similar to mandirs power level

 

[Bromar1]

Remember to build roads towards china to help convert them / keep them converted. Great job so far!

So if you build roads that don't connect to any city, religious pressure will emenate from them?

 

[John.B.C]

Yes, as long as they lead towards a particular city; ofc not in the case when there is a chain of mountains in the way.

 

[chicorbeef]

So if you build roads that don't connect to any city, religious pressure will emenate from them?

It extends the range of pressure from your cities. 1 road = 1 more tile range of pressure in that direction. It works like Trade Routes.

Maybe cathedrals should get +10% gold to be more similar to mandirs power level

Cathedrals are fine, they were recently buffed to get +20 Gold from Border Expansion as well.

 

[Minh Le]

Hello guys, here's another update.
Thank you guys for your feedbacks, I know that I do not make the right decision everytime, and I greatly appreciate your feedbacks.
I could say that this game is one of the more interesting games I have played as I try a totally different style.
Now lets continues from the last part:

Spoiler Tech path after Civil Service :

I have Way of Transcendence, so I decided to go for Chemistry to advance era, I will guarantee to get Pisa and Its also a very important wonder, I dont really need elephant this game because I wont do any conquest and my cities are defensive enough to take on any kind of aggression, but having elephant is always nice. I take a detour to Compass because I want to explore the world. Its also a good idea to get banking to advance era sonner, but banking doesnt give any wonder so I cant take advantage of WOT.

Spoiler India's Farms :

Those farms are great, I still making more farms in my capital, I work all the specialist slots except merchant, I work merchant slot in other city. I will get a scientist and an engineer next turn. I decided to make an academy and a manufactory. Its still too early to pop my Great Engineer, and Forbidden Palace is not the most important wonder, its nice to have, but Im gonna be fine even if I dont have it. I will invest money in it though.
Here's a tip for investing money on wonders. Always do it on the last turn. Im behind in tech, so even if I invest, there's still a chance I dont get the wonder, and the culture gained from failing to build it is not worth the gold I spent. For example, I need 16 turn to build the forbiden palace, so investing reduces it by 4 turns, I will make the investment when its 5 turns left on the wonder.

Spoiler Great Prophet is born :

The wait is over, I have a Great Prophet on turn 217, no civs is even enhance yet. Thats how strong India is, Im sending him to China to convert her so I can reform. After that I can make peace with Korea. Any addition Prophet will be holy sites. Working the manufactory reduces a few turns for my wonder.

Spoiler Hope Korea learn his lesson :

I didnt kill a lot of Korean soldier, but Ive captured a tons of his Missionary (about 7 or 8). Now Im gonna kill that Great General as my final lesson for him. I hope he learn that and dont mess with me again! War weariness is starting to kick in, so I will give him peace now, I dont want my empire to be unhappy.
I start to spend my faith on Mandirs.

I will take that gold as War reparations!

Spoiler China is advancing fast :

China sure is advancing fast, she scores another tech ahead of me. But I am also catching up very quick here, Im building workshop and university in all of my cities and make sure no scientist or engineer slot is unworked. Those specialists will carry me.

Spoiler The second wonder :

I was a little surprised Im able to get this wonder. I guess Im lucky. It takes 9 turns to build including investment. This is my 2nd wonder, this is just a start, Im gonna get much more wonder now since Im slowly getting ahead in tech.

Spoiler Everything come at the right time :

Everything really come at the very right time in this game. On turn 124, my prophet is done converting 4 of the China cities and Im now able to build my Sacred Garden right away.

No need to wait, I put investment in it right away. My capital is working production for now because it still have many important things needing to build up quick. I will switch it to growth later. The manufactory can be worked by Varanasi. I still work all the academy and holy sites in my capital though, because it has many bonus to % science and culture.

Spoiler Reformation Belief :

Sacred Garden is built. I pick To the Glory of God as my Reformation Belief, because I go Progress, and I need the ability to faith buy Engineer to rush wonders. It will be very important. And the extra science and culture from expending Great People is nice too.

That's it for this part, I will try to keep the pace as one part a day. I hope you guys enjoy this. Thank you for reading

 

[Owlbebach]

What? How does this work? Do you get +25% pressure from an enhanced religion or something?

I'm not exactly sure cause it's been a long time since i tested this. But i think that you holy city has +30 pressure before enhancing and +45 after enhancing. However after you question i'm not so sure about this. Maybe it was changed over the past year and i do not remember it. But it was like that some time ago