India

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The original intention for my comment above was to acknowledge I myself have personal preferences that do not necessarily overlap with what I think would be best for representation. If my distinction is not productive for the thread, by all means, I am sorry for bringing in the distraction!

No worries. I think that sums up most of the desires of the fanbase, including I would say the debate on what to do with India for the future.

 

[BuchiTaton]

The new AoE2 Indian DLC already has 4 days of being released, with great support from both general public and especially players from or with Indian heritage (and others countries from the sub-continent). By far most comments from them are very happy and even grateful to devs. I hope Firaxis look to the positive experience of The Forgotten.
I think this is a proof that the subcontient deserve to be something more than a literal meme in CIV.

 

[Patine]

The new AoE2 Indian DLC already has 4 days of being released, with great support from both general public and especially players from or with Indian heritage (and others countries from the sub-continent). By far most comments from them are very happy and even grateful to devs. I hope Firaxis look to the positive experience of The Forgotten.
I think this is a proof that the subcontient deserve to be something more than a literal meme in CIV.

Thank-you. I'll have to have a look. The AoE/AoM series is to RTS games in my love and favour what the Civ series is to TBS games.

 

[Krajzen]

Can somebody recommend me some free online resources to read about material history of ancient India - before Maurya? On Wikipedia there was surprisingly little on the material history of India before 4th century BC, which is kind od awkward, as I have no idea what exactly happened there for the previous centuries between "Indo Aryans go from cows to sedentary lifestyle" and "gigantic Maurya empire emerges, already with writing, urban centers, monumental architecture, army giving Seleucus run for his money" etc. I only know about religious and philosophical transformations from this period, but it is annoying for my imagination to have no idea what levels of social complexity existed in Indian subcontinent between 1000 BC and 400 BC.

 

[Patine]

Can somebody recommend me some free online resources to read about material history of ancient India - before Maurya? On Wikipedia there was surprisingly little on the material history of India before 4th century BC, which is kind od awkward, as I have no idea what exactly happened there for the previous centuries between "Indo Aryans go from cows to sedentary lifestyle" and "gigantic Maurya empire emerges, already with writing, urban centers, monumental architecture, army giving Seleucus run for his money" etc. I only know about religious and philosophical transformations from this period, but it is annoying for my imagination to have no idea what levels of social complexity existed in Indian subcontinent between 1000 BC and 400 BC.

Did you look up, "Vedic Civilization?"

 

[Krajzen]

I did, and do far I have only found extensive information on Vedic religion, but not on Vedic material civilization (their economy, society, states etc), that's why I have specified how I know nothing about material history of Indo - Aryan India before like 4th century BC.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

So here's the problem - writing. It's not only "where do we have writing," but "what kind of writing do we have?" One reason why early Southeast Asian history is so spotty (e.g. "did Srivijaya exist? Or are the records of Srivijaya really talking about Cambodia? Where exactly did Ibn Battuta go to in Southeast Asia?") is that we get some monumental inscriptions, or monumental inscriptions + some religious texts, but things like censuses, detailed records of rainfall, etc. - all that stuff that makes Roman or Chinese history comparatively "easy" to construct a narrative over is harder to find. Explorers' accounts (Battuta, or Zhou Daguan in Angkor) are difficult to trust and are victim to the writer's own opinions or the perils of vague language... questions like "what was Sumatra like in 400AD" are hard to answer.

So to India. Writing comes in in a big way with Maurya and Ashoka; that's why it seems to jump out of nowhere. We have Indus script, but it's undeciphered. There's plenty of stuff on the materiality of Indus civilization, but it's (possibly) an outlier in the whole thing. Or maybe not; we just don't know. The kingdoms before Maurya exist and are documented, at least archaeologically, but the amount of information that one gets from writing versus from materiality is vastly different.

Wendy Doniger's The Hindus goes over this early period a bit.