INES Ib: Novus Ortus

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

What current religions are there???

And by the way what religion would japan be? Cause if its up for grabs, can i be a Confucianist Religion, it would be accurate because Japan was a Chinese nation before independance (in this game)...

Hows it work?

 

[Imago]

To the Church
From Svearland

We do not persume to take such a title, but do not persume to have the Holy Celtic Empire have it either. If you do not withdraw it, we will be forced to set up the Scandinavian Triniist Church and break with the Celtic, as our devotion to the Trinity remains but we do not bow down to the HCE. Futhermore we must protest the use of the term 'rouge' to describe us.

To: The Svearland King
From: The Celtic Trinitist Church

We excommunicate you. Do what you will.

What current religions are there???

And by the way what religion would japan be? Cause if its up for grabs, can i be a Confucianist Religion, it would be accurate because Japan was a Chinese nation before independance (in this game)...

Hows it work?

Europe is split between Trinitism and Kyrianity, north Africa is Ctha'ri, the Middle East is Yehudan Jewish, Persia is Zoroasterian, India is Hindu, and everything east of that is just a variety of traditional beliefs. So, Japan is just animist, at the moment, but you can develop Japan's religion however you like.

***

And, effective immediately, I will have no internet access for a week. Try to keep this thread bumped in my absence.

 

[Sheep]

To all Trinist nations
From The Unified Church of the Trinity

Svearland's Church officals announce their withdrawal from the Celtic controlled church and proclaim the Unified Church of the Trinity for all peoples, not just the Celts. They note that their true loyalty remains with the Trinity and not the corrupt Vicars and other officals that have distorted the Trinity's message to all men. No more will the lies of the Vicar prevent the people of Svearland from taking their rightful place as equals with their anti-Scandinavian and pro-Celtic sermons that breed hatred and divide the followers of the Trinity.

We will welcome any Trinist into our brave Church that seeks to right the wrongs imposed on all by the political manoveurs of a regime that has lost touch with the true meaning of spiritual enlightment. If the Vicar is willing to submit himself to the full authority of the Trinity and stop this charade of idolation that he represents we will welcome him as an equal and as a brother as the scriptures teach us to do so. We hold no ill feeling towards any Trinist man, woman or child and hope that all will see the light and thus be enlightened by the Unified Church.

In the name of the Trinity we march forward to a day when all peoples, and not just the Celts, are considered to be equal under the Trinity.

 

[Perfectionist]

FROM: The Holy Celtic Empire
TO: The International Community

And at last the king of Svearland reveals the true extent of his depravity. Because the Church would not condone his war mongering and submit itself to his will, he seeks to start his own church, with himself at its head. We can only assume that he has gone mad, for he seems to believe that he has the power to command the clergy, who answer only to the Trinity. He must believe himself to be above the Trinity. We hope that the Svearish clergy and people will not listen to this madman, who has been cast out of the true Church. We also hope that all Trinitist nations will join us in condemning and isolating this heretic

TO: The Mad King of Svearland

Your soul will rot in hell. We will no longer talk to you, or listen to your ramblings. Goodbye.

 

[Sheep]

To the All nations that follow the teachings of the Trinity.
From The Unified Church of the Trinity and the King of Svearland.

We do not seek to install the King a the head of the Church. In fact there is no Head of the Unified Church of the Trinity. We are united in purpose and equal in our worship. We do not need Vicars to tell us what to do, as we think that the Trinity and the Trinity alone is responsible for the guidance of man on this Earth. The Holy Celtic Empire seeks to defame the King of Svearland the true church for their own political gain and that of the Vicars who spew forth lies at every turn.

To the Unholy Celtic Empire
From Svearland and the Unified Church of the Trinity.

Your continued adherence to the false dogmas of the Vicars which distort the true meaning of the Trinity and its scriptures and force the people away from enlightnment while to be admired, will result in only enternal damnation. Seek the path of enlightenment, join the Unified Church of the Trinity, where there is no ONE protector of the faith, but all are protectors of the faith. There is no one man placed above all others as Vicar, but instead the true meaning of the Trinity is left undistorted by Vicarish lies, decietfulness and politiking.

Futhermore we know full well of your invasion plans and we will respond with the full might of Svearland's military if you should try and carry them out.

 

[The Farow]

OCC: I will respond in a little bit in this post

Funny how you guys keep addressing the international community and no one is responding at least not yet

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Well, no one is addressing the Chta'ri, so I have nothing to say.

 

[The Farow]

Well, no one is addressing the Chta'ri, so I have nothing to say.

They are talking to the other PCs such as me, Iberia, Ireland and Scotland. It does make it funny that none have responded but the NPCs make sense since Imago is no longer here.

Maybe this discussion should wait until Imago gets back? Obviously there is not point in addressing eachother anymore since it is like talking to a brick wall now.

 

[Perfectionist]

Your continued adherence to the false dogmas of the Vicars which distort the true meaning of the Trinity and its scriptures and force the people away from enlightnment while to be admired, will result in only enternal damnation. Seek the path of enlightenment, join the Unified Church of the Trinity, where there is no ONE protector of the faith, but all are protectors of the faith. There is no one man placed above all others as Vicar, but instead the true meaning of the Trinity is left undistorted by Vicarish lies, decietfulness and politiking.

Pray tell, why are you qualified to deal out damnation? What makes you think that you know the will of the Trinity better than their own chosen representatives? Aside from your startling hubris, your ideals are ridiculous. No man placed above any other, hmm? That is a claim that undermines the very fabric of society, and as such we do not believe that you genuinely hold that belief. Nevertheless, if you demonstrate that you truly believe your rubbish, we will consider your claims. If you will abdicate your throne and establish a democracy, we may talk with you. Until that time, you are nothing but a pathetic hypocrite seeking to weaken the faith for your own political gain.

Futhermore we know full well of your invasion plans and we will respond with the full might of Svearland's military if you should try and carry them out.

Please do. It will be much easier for us if we don't have to chase your men all across Scandinavia.

OOC: Sheep, I don't think you can speak for the Svearish clergy. I don't speak for the High Priests, after all.

 

[Sheep]

Pray tell, why are you qualified to deal out damnation? What makes you think that you know the will of the Trinity better than their own chosen representatives? Aside from your startling hubris, your ideals are ridiculous. No man placed above any other, hmm? That is a claim that undermines the very fabric of society, and as such we do not believe that you genuinely hold that belief. Nevertheless, if you demonstrate that you truly believe your rubbish, we will consider your claims. If you will abdicate your throne and establish a democracy, we may talk with you. Until that time, you are nothing but a pathetic hypocrite seeking to weaken the faith for your own political gain.

No one man has authority of the spiritual enlightenment, and although the Unified Church gives people the opportunity to worship, the Unified Church does not claim to be the sole conduict through the Vicar, like the Celtic Church. The Celitc Church in fact denies man right to redemption. We do not believe the Vicar has the right to excommunicate anyone, this decision is to be reserved for the Trinity alone. In fact it is the Vicars political policies that have led to this. Indeed spiritually all men are equal. In mundane affairs this may not be so, We see none of this 'demokracy' that you proport in your Empire or in any other for that matter. Before you condemn the righteous at least research the facts.

Futhermore this Unified Church does seek to reunite Trinitism, which the Vicar divided with his excommunications and gross misconceptions of the use of political power in relation to Svearland. We seek to have no Vicar, no relgious leader and in fact a mere consesus of Trinist priests is the way forward.

ooc:I do believe I have the right to speak for Severalander clergey as they are no more akin to bowing before the Celtic Vicar and his lies that any other proud Scandinavian person.

 

[Perfectionist]

FROM: The Holy Celtic Empire
TO: The Mad King of Svearland

Yet more evidence that you are an idiot, as well as a madman. We never claimed to be democratic. We held that up as an example of the absurdity of your claims. Regarding the rest of your missive, you continue to spew vile heresy with every breath. All men are not equal. The Trinity divided men into three groups: those who work, those who fight, and those who pray. This last group is responsible for men's souls, and the High Priests are at the head of this group. By seeking to undermine this system, you are going against the divine order.

Futhermore this Unified Church does seek to reunite Trinitism, which the Vicar divided with his excommunications and gross misconceptions of the use of political power in relation to Svearland. We seek to have no Vicar, no relgious leader and in fact a mere consesus of Trinist priests is the way forward.

How amusing. You claim that we are abusing religion for political ends. Do you not see the irony? When vexed by the disapproval of your church, you attempt to set up a new one, one that will legitimize your war-mongering. Ah, but of course you do not. You are a heretic. You have turned from the light of the Trinity, and so you see nothing but the darkness of your pride. There is one more thing to add. The High Priests, in their wisdom, did not excommunicate the Svear church; they merely excommunicated you. Trinitism is united, but you are not part of it. The only explanation for your statement is that you consider yourself to be synonymous with the Svear church. No religious leader, hmm?

ooc:I do believe I have the right to speak for Severalander clergey as they are no more akin to bowing before the Celtic Vicar and his lies that any other proud Scandinavian person.

OOC: Who the hell is this vicar you keep going on about? Now, as to why the clergy will not do what you tell them, I would remind you that this is the dark ages. Kings do what the church tells them, not the other way around. The clergy could very well oppose you merely to keep you in line. Besides, that really isn't the point. The point is that you speak for the Svear government, not the church, which constitutes a government on its own at this point. And I would add that attempting to set up a Lutheran church in 700 is a profoundly bad idea.

 

[fantasmo]

Europe is split between Trinitism and Kyrianity, north Africa is Ctha'ri, the Middle East is Yehudan Jewish, Persia is Zoroasterian, India is Hindu, and everything east of that is just a variety of traditional beliefs. So, Japan is just animist, at the moment, but you can develop Japan's religion however you like.

China is Taoist, I mentioned that in my BT orders.

 

[The Farow]

synonymous with the Svear church. No religious leader, hmm?

OOC: Who the hell is this vicar you keep going on about? Now, as to why the clergy will not do what you tell them, I would remind you that this is the dark ages. Kings do what the church tells them, not the other way around. The clergy could very well oppose you merely to keep you in line. Besides, that really isn't the point. The point is that you speak for the Svear government, not the church, which constitutes a government on its own at this point. And I would add that attempting to set up a Lutheran church in 700 is a profoundly bad idea.

Many kings did not listen to the pope during the Middle Ages. For instance Gregory VII. Scandinavia is pretty far away and they can easily drift from the main church. Sort of like England. I do agree that setting up a Lutheran church in 700 A.D. is a bad idea.

 

[silver 2039]

Also note that there was schisim between the Church OTL, Catholic and Orthodox for example, and the various pretender Popes in Avigon and all. This is no diffrent. Religon has always been manipulated for political purposes and gain back then, and now.

 

[The Farow]

@Imago, I noticed a grammatical error in my UU description my fault . I will send the corrected version in my orders.

 

[Nuka-sama]

Hey Imago, how far west do I have contact with?

 

[Sheep]

Also note that there was schisim between the Church OTL, Catholic and Orthodox for example, and the various pretender Popes in Avigon and all. This is no diffrent. Religon has always been manipulated for political purposes and gain back then, and now.

ooc: Thank you. Someone who understands what I am doing. I am not changing the fundamental ideology of the Church I merely taking Svearland out of the arena controlled by the Holy Celtic Empire and the Celtic Trinist Church which by its very name denies anyone other than Celtics from redemption. In fact in RL if you look at the Orthodox Church, this is the way the Church was orignally was supposed to be. I do believe it was one of the early Pope's in his quest to consolidate political power in the church and change some of the teachings that led to schism.

 

[Sheep]

OOC: Who the hell is this vicar you keep going on about? Now, as to why the clergy will not do what you tell them, I would remind you that this is the dark ages. Kings do what the church tells them, not the other way around. The clergy could very well oppose you merely to keep you in line. Besides, that really isn't the point. The point is that you speak for the Svear government, not the church, which constitutes a government on its own at this point. And I would add that attempting to set up a Lutheran church in 700 is a profoundly bad idea.

The Vicar is the leader of your Church to which Imago has referred to upon numerous occasions. The clergy will do as I tell them as the people of Svearland are tired of Celtic arrogance in relation to the 'Celtic' Trinist Church which denies the Scandinavian right to equality. The clergy do not have the military power to defy me in Svearland. So I do speak for the Svear government but the Church itself in Svearland is also under my control. Now this is not a 'Lutheran' church.... and it is only continued Celtic arrogance and their inability for the Celtic Church to revoke the 'protector of the faith status' that Scandinavians find so offensive that has led to this.

To the Unholy Celtic Empire
From Greater Svearland

We really do not care what lies your Vicar and your King continue to spew forth. We stand ready in our defense but look forward to the day of your renouncation of the falsehoods that premate your dogmas and a profound apology for the defamations and outright lies you have levelled not only on the Kingdom of Greater Svearland but also the true and Holy Unified Church of the Trinity.

 

[Perfectionist]

ooc: Thank you. Someone who understands what I am doing. I am not changing the fundamental ideology of the Church

All that talk about people of the faith being equal, and not needing leaders to be saved? That is a huge change in theology. You are trying evangelical Trinitism.

I merely taking Svearland out of the arena controlled by the Holy Celtic Empire and the Celtic Trinist Church which by its very name denies anyone other than Celtics from redemption.

The Roman Catholic church does not deny redemption to all but Romans. Save the propaganda for IC, please.

The Vicar is the leader of your Church to which Imago has referred to upon numerous occasions.

The leaders of our church are the ten High Priests. Imago never spoke of a Vicar.

The clergy will do as I tell them

Famous last words.

The clergy do not have the military power to defy me in Svearland.

What makes you think they need military power?

FROM: The Holy Celtic Empire
TO: The Mad King of Svearland

We do not believe that you ever answered our question: what makes you think that you know the will of the Trinity? How are you suddenly sure that five hundred years of theology is wrong? Why do you have authority over the church? And tell us, when have we lied about your kingdom? We have said all manner of things about you, all of which you justify with every insane utterance, but we do not believe that we ever defamed Svearland. On the contrary, we have the utmost respect and pity for Svearland. It is Svearland's supreme misfortune to be governed by an imbecilic heretic such as yourself. As further proof of your idiocy, we note that you are addressing someone you call 'the Vicar' as head of our church. There is no such person. The High Priests govern the church. We are not surprised by your lack of knowledge, but we find it immensely amusing that the man who denounces the supposed corruption of the church does not have the foggiest idea of how the church is run.

 

[Sheep]

To the Unholy Celtic Empire
From the Kingdom of Greater Svearland

If you do not see your own follies that have caused this, do not think we will point them out to you. We see no further point to discussing this matter with you. If you decide to take military action we will be ready, otherwise good day to you sir.