Innovation challenge

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by futurehermit, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. 6K Man

    6K Man Bureaucrat

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    The best innovation I came up with on my own (well, someone else probably came up with it first, so we'll call it 'independently derived') was to rush with a force mainly made up of Flanking II HAs, when behind your opponent technologically.

    No matter how bad the odds are, they have at least a 50% chance of surviving. Throw these at cities defended by anything up to Longbows and eventually you will win. Even if you don't have Catapults - I beat Gandhi with HAs and Swordsmen when he had Longbows.
     
  2. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    War Chariots gave me that revelation ;)
     
  3. amishdemon

    amishdemon Chieftain

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    don't know if this is new but when playing as the vikings i find it much better to build a trading post in each city and don't build inland city if possible and also build more troops than you will ever need
     
  4. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    What wonders have 'gambits' attached (or, strong strategies)?
    Pyramids (Representation + Specialists); Great Lighthouse (pack in cities tight to maximize power), Colossus (water-heavy maps and/or Financial leader); Oracle (snag a powerful tech like Metal Casting, Code of Laws, Currency, etc); The Great Library (build in a super-science city, or use to create one); The Great Wall (use to produce early Great Spy); Taj Mahal/Mausoleum of Mausollos (Golden Age combo)

    Honestly, is this it? What about Temple of Artemis or Statue of Zeus or Shewdagon Paya or any of the others?

    Maybe:
    Spiritual/Civ that starts with Mysticism: if you have the necessary conditions, head for a religion. Make sure YOU found it. Then head Meditation -> Worker Techs -> Bronze Working -> Aesthetics beeline -> Iron Working. Build the Shwedagon Paya, switch into an early Theocracy, combine with Swords/Axes for a super-charged war.
     
  5. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    Hmm...I just learned something by reading this thread: You can get march after medic1 and combat1-medic1-march is faster than combat1-2-3-march. Indeed, I think this is VERY useful, especially when combined with Red Cross, which is something I would've never thought of :goodjob: I think this has a ton of potential, really, especially for aggressive and/or charismatic leaders. That means that for an aggressive leader, post-Red Cross, you can churn out march units with just a barracks out of your red cross city. Should definitely help when combined with a MASH unit or two or three for blitzing through enemy empires later in the game.

    Nice tip
     
  6. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    As far as I know, there have been theoretical discussions, but no practical demonstrations, of Globe Theater + Red Cross and drafting March.
     
  7. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

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    Would you be able to do the 2 promos? Because drafted units only get 1/2 XP as normally built units, right? :)
     
  8. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    If the city has Red Cross then the unit only needs 1 promotion to get march.

    Interesting idea though ;)

    I like going for early Feudalism for vassalage with the celts, the building hordes of G3 Swordsmen :D
    50% withdraw, +50% hill defense, double hill move and it also reduces the defense bonus for enemy cities on hills.
    And if course they upgrade to some pretty evil macemen.


    Hmm how about an early Feudalism/Theology gambit with an AGG leader in general, the 5XP amphibious, formation and march units may prove very strong in early wars.
     
  9. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

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    So, you'd have to have a barracks and be in theocracy to get the March, right?
     
  10. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    No just barracks if you have Red Cross, medic 1 opens march itself.
    AGG leaders can get march from just Bar + Vassalage/Theocracy early on though.
     
  11. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

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    But it would only give you 1.5 xp because you're drafting.
     
  12. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Ah, ok forgot bout the drafting bit :p
     
  13. Yeosol

    Yeosol monarch

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    Yes I figured you could have one city with HE + WP for a base of 7 exp. You would need 3 more exp for C3March troops for a Aggr leader. (That's both civics or 2 GG's or a combo) which should be doable for Riflemen. Then add the Red cross in a second high production city to produce March troops from their. Any other citys with 1 civic can produce the C1Medic1March troop promo line (only need 5exp for Aggr). This way you can produce an all march army of various upgrades. March Infantry + Bombers should be able to conquest as fast as they can walk, never stopping to heal. Combine this with a Golden age or two and you could reach a Dom. win in lighting speed.

    Monty and Budica would be the best. Budica for obvious reasons. Monty because he can quickly access the 2 exp civics. Brennus is ok as well. 13 exp is actually only 2 more then aggr needs because of the barracks +3 exp the final # will come out odd (9,11,13) so for all practical purposes the 10 exp for Aggr leaders is actually 11. The +4 exp from civics which Brennus can reach with spiritual makes him a good candidate.
     
  14. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    When I play aggressive leaders from now on, I will definitely keep this in mind.

    HE/WP city -> C3M units
    GT/RC city -> Draft C1/Med1/M units
    Other production cities -> C1+/Med1/M units

    Make sure that GGs are turned into MASH units.

    Later in the game 3-6 stacks of march units led by MASH GGs should indeed lead to a domination victory in short order, especially when supported by bombers, as suggested.
     
  15. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Not sure I'd bother with C3 march. I'd use the M1, march troopers solely as post siege city mop up, with the specialised pinch etc troops being the main stack defense.
    I only realised recently that march troops can attack and heal on the same turn :D
    I think it could be effective as soon as you get catapults and theocracy/vassalage
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  16. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    In practice, I don't think that matters much. After all, March doesn't actually do anything for you until the unit has been wounded. Which means that it has been in combat, and survived. So at the point when March is actually useful, the unit has at least one undiluted XP in addition to whatever it started with.
     
  17. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    No matter what anyone else says, this post takes the cake. Navigation I beats everything else said in this thread. As an added bonus building too many troops sound important.
     
  18. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    That is an excellent point! In fact, arguably being 1XP short in that situation is an advantage because of the promotion-heal that would be available.

    The only time having March already would be preferable would be when the unit is at risk of being attacked on a turn where it has moved (or some other action making it ineligible for healing). You just made me realise March is one of those promotions like CR - generally it should not be used until you absolutely know you'll need it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  19. Cjreynol

    Cjreynol Warlord

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    I have been reading over this thread and there are a ton of good ideas in here to try out. As a new player I am still trying to get down the basics and can't say I follow any formulas or strategies yet. But some of these are great and I'll have to start trying to do them in my games. :)

    I especially like the idea of getting the March promotion after getting damaged in a battle and gaining some exp. Like what has already been said, you start a fight and then the unit can heal with the promo and heal on it's way to the next battle. Awesome stuff! :goodjob:

    I have learned so much in such a short time on these forums, and I am still always amazed at how many new and fresh ideas are discussed here (at least new and fresh to a Civ newbie like me :lol:)
     
  20. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    The thing is though, you have to be at combat 3 already or else have medic 1 already or else get enough xp for 2 promos--if you are delaying getting march. That makes scenario 1 most likely for delaying it. Scenario 2, why get medic 1 when it doesn't do anything for you either? Scenario 3 is unlikely from a single battle.

    I think the mass-march army would work best with at least a slight tech advantage so that you don't have to lean on promos to win battles. Then your wounded troops heal and are ready to go back to war more quickly.

    One clarification question on march though, which I have never fully understood: Say you have a MASH unit and a bunch of units with the march promo. You just sack a city and a bunch of your march units are injured. You send them, along with the MASH unit toward the next city, instead of stopping to heal. Will they heal while moving to the next city? Or, does march only allow healing to start on the same turn that the unit attacks, but you still have to remain in place in order for healing to occur? I have always assumed the former, but if it is the latter, then the march promo is really not that useful imo.
     

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