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Inquisition

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Mod Components' started by bmarnz, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. Ekmek

    Ekmek on steam: ekmek_e

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    excellent work bmarnz. I'll look over the code and see if I can find a way to kick out foreign corporations with a lawyer now! (I may need help)

    PS any tips on how to make this modular?
     
  2. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    Bmarnz,

    It was truly an honor to work with you on this mod. This proves just how much can be accomplished in a very short amount of time, when people work together for the common good. Again, I really appreciate everything you have done. :thanx:

    Sincerely,

    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  3. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    While the Unit Info xml files can be made modular, the python files would have to be manually merged with whatever mod you're using.
     
  4. marx&engles

    marx&engles God

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    Do you think it would be a good idea to add a religious extremist unit (for any religion) to destroy religious buildings? I'm not sure I like the idea of the inquisitor being able to take away buildings and the religion.
     
  5. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    1. In my view, a religious extremist or finatic is nothing more than a terrorist or spy. We already have spies in this game that can be given a mission to destroy enemy buildings.

    2. Inquisitors are units used to eliminate/remove any non-state religion that may exist in any city throughout your civilization. They also have the capability to remove non-state religion buildings. They will not remove religious buildings that support your state religion.

    3. Why would you even consider constructing non-state religious buildings unless you were going to try and achieve a cultural victory? :dunno: The Cultural victory strategy has no need for inquisitors, as inquisitions would be counter productive towards your goal of maximizing culture. :culture: This max out the culture strategy is like having a true democracy with free speech and no state religion.

    4. Missionaries and Inquisitors are essential units for achieving the religious victory condition. The religious victory strategy rewards religious unity, when your state religion infuence reaches 70%. This strategy is like having a true Theocracy that does not tolarate any non-state religions or their associated places of worship. Only the official state religion is authorized throughout the empire.

    5. The Bottom Line: The inquisitor should remove all non-state religious buildings in addition to the non-state religions. Why? Becuase you can hardly have a successful inquisition if non-state religious buildings remain in a city, where infadels continue to practice their heresy. :lol: Religious unity :king: can only be achieved when all cities have been purged from the evil influence of non-state religions and the destruction of their places of false worship. :lol: Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated into the collective by converting to the official state religion. :assimilate: :bowdown: :religion:

    In my view, there is no doubt that the inquisitor must retain the capability to remove non-state religious buildings. This issue should now be a dead horse. :deadhorse:


    Very Respectfully,

    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  6. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Removing the non-state religious buildings when purging the city is actually a penalty to the player. If you remove religions from your city, you should no longer get the benefits that their buildings provide. :)
     
  7. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    I couldn't leave well enough alone. I have posted an alternate version.

    Limited Religions
    Alternate version with limited religions. Civilizations can't found a new religion if they already control a Holy city. This eliminates the strategy of founding multiple religions to more easily acheive religious victory. Also increases number of religious factions in game.
     
  8. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    Please Explain: How can the founding of multiple religions make it "easier" to achieve a "Religious Victory?" :dunno: For each additional non-state religion, Holy City or not, added to your empire, the total percentage of religious influence for your state religion actually goes down, not up! :crazyeye: Preventing more than one Holy City founding per player is actually in the best interest of a Theocracy. :thumbsup: For me personally: Although I may like this limitation for Holy City foundings, because it helps me acheive a Religious Victory faster; I am compelled to consider the needs of other strategies -- see below:

    Bad for Cultural Victory Strategy: This change would actually hurt the player who wants to achieve a Cultural Victory. This victory condition is achieved by obtaining, all the Holy Cities you can get, spreading multiple religions in all cities and constructing the associated religious buildings. So I repeat, this change actually hurts the player who wants to use the "Cultural Victory" strategy (i.e. a Democracy with no state religion). :thumbsdown:

    A Better Solution:: If you want to slow down the religious victory condition, just change the percentage from 70 to say 75 percent religious influence for any state religion. This increase will require more cities to win a religious victory.

    Example from History: Now there is one more major reason to repeal this latest change: To limit the number of Holy City foundings to only one per player would make it almost impossible to have more than one founding religion in a single city. This is simply not historically accurate, as we have three of the world's major religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claiming Jerusalem, as their Holy City.

    Bottom Line is: Because the Cultural victory stategy is made more difficult with this change, I recommend repealing it.

    Very Respectfully,


    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  9. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Easy strategy for Religious Victory:

    Found as many religions as you can. Spread only your state religion and purge your other holy cities. By founding other religions, you prevent other civs from spreading those religions. Thus increasing the influence of your state religion. :D

    With religion limits, your forced to compete with all religions and be more active in eliminating other religions by war or diplomacy. :devil:

    This does nerf culture victories a little, but I always found culture victories to be the easiest.

    I figured not everyone would like this change, so I offered it as an alternate version. I tried to make it a selectable game option but found that it would require a dll modification. :(

    I also hope to see more religious factions. In many games I play, only 2-4 religions become relevant to the political landscape.

    Anyways, I left it up to the people which version they wanted.

    Happy Gaming :D
     
  10. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    This mod makes the research techs that discover a new religion obsolete, if you already have a Holy City. Perhaps, now there only needs to be one single tech for the founding of the religion of your choice. The first 7 civs to research the "religion tech", gets to pick from the remaining religions on list.

    1. First player to discover religion gets to choose one religion from all 7 religions.

    2. Second player to discover religion gets to choose one religion from the remaining 6 religions.

    3. Third player to discover religion gets to choose one religion from the remaining 5 religions.

    4. ...And so on until all 7 religions have been discovered.

    If you play a game with less than 7 players (AI or Human), (say 5) then only 5 religions will appear in the game.

    Your thoughts? ;)

    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  11. Ekmek

    Ekmek on steam: ekmek_e

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    I like the idea of only being allowed to found one religion per civ.

    in the case of jerusalem it can be argued that it was the hebrews that founded judaism, the romans (who occupied jerusalem) founded christianity, and the arabs that founded islam (and occupied jerusalem).

    On the other hand you could lok at the religions 'center of power' which would make jerusalem the jewish holy city, rome for christianity, and mecca for islam.
     
  12. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Those techs aren't completely obsolete as they unlock buildings, wonders, civics,... If a single religion tech was added, its placement in the tech tree would have to be considered carefully. If it were placed to close to starting techs some civs would have big advantage.

    Hmm... Under consideration. :mischief:

    Does this mean you believe a civ religion limit could add to gameplay? ;)
     
  13. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    I do, as it distributes Holy Cities fairly, giving eveyone a fair shot. The only time it might not be fair is when there are more than 7 players. With 8 players, someone is not going to get the opportunity to discover a religion. I would much prefer there be a large number of religions available to choose from and limit the religions like civs: The number of religions will never exceed the number of players. I guess I'm advocating enough different religions to match the max number of civs in any game. Only this way would religion have an equal capability for all.

    The way the stock game is now, if you don't discover a religion early, you might have to wait a while before you can research the next available tech that discovers a religion. :aargh: ...or you might not get a holy city at all. :( Either way, your civ can start to get unhappy and hurt your productivity.

    About the placement for the religion tech: I would place it as an off shoot from monothesm and call it organized religion.

    Very Respectfully,

    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  14. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    According to the BTS info center, there are 10 new Civilizations, for a total of 34. 34 is a lot of Civs! If you were to create one religion per civ, then we would require 27 new religions in addition to the 7 we already have for a total of 34.

    I'm not advocating anything like the 43 religions mod that is out there under development. Rather, than dividing into groups called faiths, I say keep it simple. Only one religion is founded by each Civ in the game. When you discover the religious tech or organized religion, then you select one religion from a dropdown list to found your civ's Holy City religion. There would never be more religions than the number of civs that started the game.

    I realize this is a major change to the game and might be too much to add to the inquisition mod. Perhaps this idea of having one Holy City religion per civ and choosing from among the 34 different religions, should be in it's own separate mod.

    Very Respectfully,

    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  15. Edward The Big

    Edward The Big Bob Crane's Tripod

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    Bmarnz,

    Big fan of this...Downloaded all versions of it. Well done.

    My question on Limited religions would be this: I like to play a 5 or 6 Civ game...

    A. This mod would ensure not all religions would be founded
    B. Would it not make it possible for one Civ to sweep all religion? I mean, I could sweep through religious techs, and ensure ONE religion is founded...

    Perhaps work it so that the first civ who gets a religious tech AND DOES NOT ALREADY HAVE A RELIGION gets the religion?
     
  16. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    @Orion Veteran
    I also think every civ having there own religion would be interesting. Yet, you are correct, adding religions would be out of the scope of this mod. May be for some future mod? Right now I'll be turning my attention back to MarnzMod and incorporating Inquisition into it. :)

    @Edward the Big
    A. Using limited religions with less than 7 civs would cause at least 1 religion not being founded.
    B. No, one civ can't sweep the religious techs. It already works the way you suggested. The first civ to reach a tech that doesn't have a holy city founds the religion for that tech. :D
     
  17. Ekmek

    Ekmek on steam: ekmek_e

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    If you're looking to add more stuff maybe an event that forces areligion to close down and relocate to another city (with a pop change)

    Or religious strife in a city of competing faiths. I know the game tries to simulate that but something more dramatic would be nice
     
  18. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Interesting ideas. :)

    One idea I had was having a Holy City reappear if the previous one was razed or purged.
     
  19. maverick_mw

    maverick_mw Toy Soldier

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    Just completed my first game with your mod included, and I managed to get the Religious victory pretty early on.

    I actually went back and changed it to 85% to stop it from happening, as I wanted to play on with the game. I think your value is about right, I just got a lucky break by destroying 2 civs on the same continent right at the start, leaving room for me to just explode culturally.

    I wasn't playing the limited religions and only founded one other religion, which I then crushed.

    The limited religions sounds good, I might take a look at that one now...
     
  20. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Thanx for the feedback. :)

    Let me know if the Limited Religions makes a difference.
     

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