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Inquisition

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Mod Components' started by bmarnz, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    I have posted a new update.

    v1.4
    -Persecution now has a chance to fail. Failure rate increases with number of religions. Again with help from Osaft.
    -Game now displays message reporting success or failure. With a little help from Darque.
    -Fixed bug that allowed inquisitor to be used when player had no state religion.


    @Master Orion
    I went to change the cost, lo and behold, it was already at 80. :eek:

    You make valid points about the spreading of inquisitions. I'll consider it. :mischief: Basically it boils down to a balance between realism, gameplay, and (most importantly) not making it to complicated for myself. The more requirements we throw at it the more complicated it gets. :crazyeye:

    Let me know what you think of latest version.
     
  2. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    Again I must say you are doing a fantastic job. In less than a week this mod has come very far. I am so grateful! Thanks for all of your hard work. :goodjob:

    I advocated 80 for the cost of the inquisitor without looking it up. :crazyeye: Sorry about that. With the latest addition of possible inquisition failure, I believe the unit cost is perfect! :)

    The display of a message reporting success or failure is a nice addition that should match the standard set by the missionary. :goodjob:

    I will test latest version tonight after work and provide more comments then.

    Very Respectfully,

    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  3. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    Bmarnz,

    After examining the message, which reports the success or failure of an inquisition, I came up with three thoughts to make the success/failure messages a little better:

    The current statement reads: "Your inquisitor has purged the city of infadels."

    First: In the interest of maintaining a standard, I recommend that you replace the word "city" with the actual name of the city. The Missionary success statement is short, to the point and uses the actual city name: "[Religion] has spread in [City Name]."

    Second: While you and I may be pleasantly ammused :lol: by the use of the word "infadels" in the current message, Firaxis might not think it is politically correct. I think in the long term interest of obtaining Firaxis approval of this mod, the message wording should apply equally to every religion.

    Third: We now have an inquisitor that can not only remove all non-state religions, but it can also remove all non-state religious buildings and eliminate the non-state holy city identifier. For those who know: This identifier marks a city where a religion was originally founded. Each of these items affect what I call the total "religious influence" of a city.

    With that in mind, here is a more politically correct statement for you to consider, as a suggeted replacement: All non-state religious influences have been purged from [City Name].

    This statement identifies the actual city, where the inquisition took place and fully captures what action occurred using key words that are politically correct for any religion.

    I couldn't get an inquisition to fail in my test game and therefore did not see the failure statement. My suggested wording for the failure is: An attempt to eliminate non-state religious influences in [City Name] failed.

    BTW, what is the exact percentage chance for an inquisition failure?

    Very Respectfully,


    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  4. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Orion Veteran,

    You're right. Infadels not very PC of me. :spank:

    I was, however, already planning to try and add city name, though. :)

    To try and see fail message put all religions in city as this increases failure rate.

    Currently succes rate = 90% for one non-state religion and -5% for each additional non-state religion.

    BTW what do you think of sound effect?
     
  5. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    This mod keeps getting better with every change you make. :) :goodjob:

    I thought I heard something during the last test. I'll turn it up and check it out.

    Very Respectfully,


    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  6. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    One thought concerning the success rate for an inquisition. I believe we might want to make it a lot more difficult to remove a Holy City's founding religion.

    The elimination of a founding religion in a Holy City can have major consequences. The owner of a Holy City will loose:

    1. Intelligence from any city with the same religion.

    2. The Shrine and any income it receives.

    Two different options here:

    1. For any one specific religion, implement a Pre-requisit for the elimination of all occurances of that religion in all other cities before the holy city can be removed. That makes sure the holy city survives to the very end of the religion itself.

    2. Perhaps a 33 percent chance for a successful removal would vastly increase the difficulty to eliminate a Holy City. But it wouldn't be impossible, especially if you send 3 inquisitors at a time to increase your odds of success.

    I like option 1 because it is probably more historically correct.

    Your thoughts?

    BTW, the sound is cool! :goodjob:

    Very Respectfully,


    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  7. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    I have posted a new update.

    v1.5
    -City name now in display message.
    -Player now notified when state religion is purged from cities by opponents.
    -Player now notified when religion is purged by opponents if player controls holy city.

    Should inquisitors be more like missionaries where player only gets purge notifications if they control holy city?

    I also thought about making it harder to purge holy city.

    Another bright note. I did some testing, and the AI will use inquisitors. :D
    I may want to do some more polishing of the AI. When I extracted it from Gods, the only trigger for the AI was if they had a holy city. So far I've added three additional triggers for AI.
    a) AI will use inquisitors under theocracy without a holy city.
    b) AI won't use inquisitors if they have no state religion (ie Free Speech).
    c) AI won't use inquisitors if they are top third in culture.

    I probably should add a religious influence trigger to supercede culture. May be if their holy city is top three in religious influence?

    Any thoughts? :mischief:
     
  8. Gilly

    Gilly Chieftain

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    I've got state atheism in my mod, so I wonder...would it work without a state religion, too, some way?
     
  9. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Not as is. Try swaping out these two files: atheism.rar

    There are three tags named CIVIC_ATHEISM in the files. One in main CvMainInterface and two in CvGameUtils. Make sure they match the <TYPE> tag for Atheism in CIV4CivicInfos.
     
  10. ripple01

    ripple01 Chieftain

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    Damnit, stop updating so fast! I'm trying to integrate this into my mod and each time I turn around, there's a new version!!!

    J/k, thanks for your hard work on this project. It's looking better and better each day. :)

    Cheers,
    ripple01
     
  11. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Well, no one's forcing you to download the fancy new and improved versions. :trouble:
     
  12. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    Bmarnz,

    In a test game I used an inquisitor to remove a non-state religion, which so happened to be the last city in game where that religion existed. I received 2 messages.

    1. Success message: Your inquisitor has purged [City Name] of all non-state religions. This message is good the way it is.

    2. Warning message: [Religion Name] has been purged from [City Name]. This message is redundant and should be changed to my example further down. I'll explain.

    You listed the following conditions for messages to be sent: :confused:

    -Player now notified when state religion is purged from cities by opponents.
    -Player now notified when religion is purged by opponents if player controls holy city.


    I really think you should simplify into one easy warning message for all civs that indicates a specified religion has been purged. :)

    The total influence of the [Religion Name] religion has been reduced to 0. One message for all! :thumbsup:

    Bottom line is: I don't think you need to restrict the warning message base upon holy city ownership or otherwise. :thumbsdown: Just display the proposed message to all civs. :thanx:

    Very Repectfully,

    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  13. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    I think the redundant message is a bug when player purges a religion to which he controls the holy city. I prefer to keep notifacation in line with missionaries and display messages to relevant civs without players receiving redundant messages. :)
     
  14. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    I believe you are correct. :agree: In tonight's test game I was the founder of 3 religions, two of course were non-state. Each time I purged a non-state religion that matched one of the non-state holy city religions, the warning message came up. :help:

    Do you think you can shoot :ar15:, squish :hammer: and terminate :ninja: this redundant bug?

    Well it's time for me to get some rest :sleep: Talk with you later.

    Very Respectfully,

    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  15. Gilly

    Gilly Chieftain

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    It works!
    Thanks mate, you made me very happy! Now I no longer have to raze cities once they've been infected by religion...:lol:
     
  16. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Yet another update. :hammer2:

    v1.6
    -Fixed message redundancy bug
    -Inquisitor gets -50% if city is Holy City of non-state religion.
    -Inquisitor gets +10% if city is Holy City of state religion.
    -Updated AI to consider religious influence when using inquisitors.

    Well, I think that might be final. :dance:
     
  17. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Chieftain

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    Playtested v1.6 and the message redundancy bug is dead!:) :goodjob:

    I also had an inquisition failure on 1 of 2 holy cities. :goodjob:

    You have implemented almost everything I suggested and your work on this mod has been outstanding. :clap: :bowdown: :hatsoff: :worship: :high5: :trophy: :woohoo:

    So from all of us serious religious civ finatics out there: :thanx:

    Now it's time to: [party] :dance: :band: :beer: :banana: :cheers:

    One task remains: Convince Firaxis to make this inquisition mod part of the official game.:deal:

    Sincerely,

    Orion Veteran :cool:
     
  18. Gilly

    Gilly Chieftain

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    I doubt Firaxis would to that :lol:
    After all, their approach to the religion system is a statement. Notice how the religions are, basically, all the same? Notice also, how free religion is the final and UN-supported civic? Firaxis probably attempts to lecture us on "love thy neighbour".
    After all, if they had gone for a more REALISTIC and GAMEPLAY-ENHANCING go, they'd have given Judaism a +++commerce, hinduism a +++productivity and christianity a ---research (And included the inquisitor already)

    But nonetheless, great work bmarnz!
    Would the atheism files still work with 1.6? (If not, then no matter. I'm happy with 1.3 ;D )
     
  19. bmarnz

    bmarnz Chieftain

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    Here you go. atheism2.rar

    @Orion Veteran
    Thanx for the feedback and play testing. :cheers:
     
  20. Gilly

    Gilly Chieftain

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    Wheee! Finally, no razing cities all the time anymore! :crazyeye:
    You're my personal anti-religious idol now, bmarnz!
     

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