Inquisition

[maverick_mw]

Pretty solid Marnz!

Just a thought, is it possible to set the code so that each Civ can found two religions, rather than only one?

Thta way it would give a little more diversity while still preventing religion dogpile.

 

[OrionVeteran]

One idea I had was having a Holy City reappear if the previous one was razed or purged.

I like your idea! Here are some thoughts for re-appearance:

1. Loss of Holy City due to combat and the City was razed. The Holy City should reappear in another city owned by any Civ who has the greatest religious influence for that religion. For example: Say player 1 looses the Jewish Holy City in Combat to player 2, who razed the city. If player 3 has more cities with the Jewish religion, than does player 1, then player 3 should have one of his cities convert into the Jewish Holy City.

2. Loss of Holy City due to an inquisition. Like example 1, the Holy City should reappear in the Civ, who has the greatest religious influence for that religion.

3. Permanent Loss of Holy City religion. This should happen when there are no other cities left in the game with the same religion as the holy city. In this case, the Holy City is the last city in the game with that religion. Once that religion is removed by inquisition or razed, there is no place else for the Holy City zealots to migrate to. As a result the religion does not reappear and is permanantly lost.

4. The effect: The overall effect of this mod change would make Holy Cities keep re-appearing over and over again until there are no more cities left with the same religion.

Very Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

 

[OrionVeteran]

bmarnz,

After playing several test games, I have come to the conclusion that the bar needs to be raised for achieving a religious victory. I'm achieving religious victory way too soon, even with the limited religions version of the mod. Here are my recommended changes for the CivVictoryInfo.xml file:

1. Increase Religious Influence Threshold: Change the prerequisite iReligionPercent value to 75. This change requires a religion to have 75% religious influence to win. This is an easy change.

2. Mandate Religious Unity: Create a new prerequisite for 100% of all cities, owned by one civ, to have the state religion established, and no non-state religions at all. There can be non-state religions in cities owned by other civs, just not in any of the winner's cities. This means there must be religious unity in your empire in order to win. This change might be a little harder to program.

Justification: I believe these changes are needed to reward religious unity and not just religious influence.


Very Respectfully,


Orion Veteran

 

[bmarnz]

The solution may be to add more religions. I have added four religions to the newest release of MarnzMod along with the inquisitor. I'll see how that works.

 

[maverick_mw]

Alright Marnz, now I seem to have a bug report for you.

I just tried the LR mod with "Choose Religions" option selected, and I never got the prompt. The game just continued anyway without a religion being founded.

Without the option it does work fine though.

Have you tested this option yourself?

 

[bmarnz]

Alright Marnz, now I seem to have a bug report for you.

I just tried the LR mod with "Choose Religions" option selected, and I never got the prompt. The game just continued anyway without a religion being founded.

Without the option it does work fine though.

Have you tested this option yourself?

Are you sure you were the first to that tech. Its hard tell when a religion is founded by the AI which tech they got it from. I did test it and it seemed to work.

 

[maverick_mw]

Yeah I've just tried it again, it wasn't another AI. It may still be me though, probabyl copied the text wrong in one of the python files. Lets take a look...

Yep it was me. I seem to have missed the last part of the Event code when adding it.

Maybe it would be an idea to quote your code for us modular mod makers, to make it easier to find...

 

[OrionVeteran]

The solution may be to add more religions. I have added four religions to the newest release of MarnzMod along with the inquisitor. I'll see how that works.

Bmarnz,

Adding more religions to the game will not solve the core problem. I'll still pull off a victory too early.

Most of my test games had large maps. I only ran across the problem when I played games with very small maps. It is very hard to achieve religious unity in every city early on. It takes time, as you must research the tech for the inquisitor before you can remove non-state religions. Adding the Prerequisite for religious unity will give other Civs the time they need to research a religion and to spread it's influence to several cities. At the very least it will take a lot longer than achieving a 70% religious influence victory.

Right now it is possible to have non-state religions in your empire and still win a religious victory. I think that violates the intent of the type of victory we were trying to achieve. I.E. Not only should there be a pre-requisite for religious influence, but also for religious unity. IMO, its a hollow victory without achiving religious unity first.

Please add the pre-requisite to have the state religion established and 0% non-state religions for every citiy you own, before a religious victory is declared. This means 75% religious influence alone will not produce the victory condition, unless you first have religious unity.

I think this is a very important change to make.

Very Respectfully,


Orion Veteran

 

[bmarnz]

@Orion Veteran

It may be possible to have a religious unity requirement.

It would be helpful if you could provide a brief description of a game where you achieve an early victory. How early? What strategy do you use? How many religions were founded?

I think all religions should be founded before acheiving victory. Maybe also pushing back inquisitor in tech tree.

 

[marx&engles]

I really like this mod, however I agree with Orion Veteran's comment about changes to religious victory.

I like a lot of the discussion on this thread, but I just created a more general thread to discuss religion changes.
Any ideas are welcomed and appreciated.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6170872#post6170872

 

[OrionVeteran]

It would be helpful if you could provide a brief description of a game where you achieve an early victory. How early? What strategy do you use? How many religions were founded?

It was a tiny map where my strategy was to choke off territory for rival Civ to produce additional cities. Two Rivals had only 2 cities each. I had 7 cites and spreading fast to claim the remaining territory. Only 4 of my cities had my state religion and I won the game. ...Way too early.

I think all religions should be founded before acheiving victory.

I agree, but with one more requirement: wait 10 turns after the last religion is discovered, as this would give every Civ the chance to spread their religions, before a victory can be achieved. So now we should have 5 pre-requisits for a religious victory:

1. 75% religious influence

2. 100% religious unity in all cities

3. 0% non-state religions in all cities

4. All religions must be founded

5. First chance for religious victory can occur 10 turns after last religion is founded.

I'm on travel for the weekend. Happy Thanksgiving!

Very Respectfully,


Orion Veteran

 

[maverick_mw]

Good idea with the delay after the last religion, although I'm not sure it is strictly necessary. If you can manage to win everyone over to your state religion early on, then you should win, not be forced to wait because you are still in the Classical era or whatever.

I only find it too easy simply due to the value. I found it quite easy to get to 75%, which is why I increased it to 90%. This was still attainable but it would have required some warmongering, which is the point.

Perhaps you should go for a similar route as the domination victory. By that I mean religious %ge is taken as one value, but you also need say a &ge of cities as well, say 3/4 of the world population in 3/4 of the cities by number.

That way, a large city with the religion would help with the population value, but you still need to spread to more cities to get an overall value for total cities in the world. Not sure if thats going to be easy to make!

 

[Liambane]

Alright Marnz, now I seem to have a bug report for you.

I just tried the LR mod with "Choose Religions" option selected, and I never got the prompt. The game just continued anyway without a religion being founded.

Without the option it does work fine though.

Have you tested this option yourself?

I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM!!! But, also if "Choose Religions" is deselected nobody can FOUND RELIGIONS!!! Is like if Religion is Founding Religion is Removed from the game.

I just copied the files, without manipulate them! How can it be???

 

[Liambane]

I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM!!! But, also if "Choose Religions" is deselected nobody can FOUND RELIGIONS!!! Is like if Founding Religion is Removed from the game.

I just copied the files, without manipulate them! How can it be???

Any Ideas???

 

[bmarnz]

It works for me. Does it work as a standalone mod? If it does, then either you missed copying something or part of your mod is causing a conflict.

Did you try the basic inquisitor? Does that work?

 

[Liambane]

It works for me. Does it work as a standalone mod? If it does, then either you missed copying something or part of your mod is causing a conflict.

Did you try the basic inquisitor? Does that work?

YUP, Your inquisitor 1.6 works perfectly in my mod...

I like the idea of limited religion but seems like that doesn't work in my mod!

I know how to merge mods... But I can't Understand WHY doesn't works!!! I just copy files, like i did for the Working Version!!! (And NO FILES NEED TO BE OVERWRITE for merge our mods!!!)

 

[OrionVeteran]

Bmarnz,

Any status on the implementation of the 5 pre-requisits for a religious victory?

Very Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

 

[bmarnz]

YUP, Your inquisitor 1.6 works perfectly in my mod...

I like the idea of limited religion but seems like that doesn't work in my mod!

I know how to merge mods... But I can't Understand WHY doesn't works!!! I just copy files, like i did for the Working Version!!! (And NO FILES NEED TO BE OVERWRITE for merge our mods!!!)

I'm not familiar enough with your mod to know where the conflict is occurring. Sorry.

Bmarnz,

Any status on the implementation of the 5 pre-requisits for a religious victory?

Very Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

I havn't had a chance to look at it yet. For now I say Religious Victory is too easy on small maps. You should try bigger maps and let me know how that goes.

 

[OrionVeteran]

I havn't had a chance to look at it yet. For now I say Religious Victory is too easy on small maps. You should try bigger maps and let me know how that goes.

I played a Huge map and still I won - of course! Just not quite as fast. The same conditions exist though. I can still win without religious unity and before all religions have been founded. So I'd like to stick to my original request for all 5 prerequisits. No rush though. I will not be unhappy if it takes you a couple of weeks to publish the change. I will play another Huge game over the Christmas holidays.

Very Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

 

[OrionVeteran]

Bmarnz,

I had a discussion, during a multiplayer game, concerning the prospect of conducting foreign inquisitions. As you may recall, our previous discussion concluded that we should not include the capability to conduct foreign inquisitions because of the negative affect on any civilization that might be trying to achieve a cultural victory.

My friend came up with a brilliant idea. He said there is no reason for any civilization to try and achieve a cultural victory if that victory condition option is not selected at the beginning of the game. So his suggestion is simply this:

If the cultural victory condition is selected, the inquisitor should not be able to conduct foreign inquisitions.

However, if the cultural victory condition is not selected, the inquisitor should then have the capability to conduct foreign inquisitions with all of the prerequisites we discussed earlier:


1. Pre-requisite: The foreign civilization must have an open borders agreement with you.

2. Pre-requisite: The foreign civilization must have the same state religion as you.

3. Pre-requisite: The state religion must already exist in the foreign city.

4. Pre-requisite: The foreign civilization (Ally or Vassal) must be a Theocracy.

I thought about my friend’s idea for quite a while and it makes sense to me. I know you are busy working on the fix for a religious victory to require the religious unity prerequisites. In my mind, the religious unity idea takes priority over conducting foreign inquisitions. Just keep this foreign inquisitions idea on your list of possible suggestions to implement later.

Very Respectfully,

Orion Veteran