Internal Affairs

[Conroe]

has so many "right" paths that it makes it a little more difficult to make a "correct" decision for your chosen path. Some people might feel that they don't know enough to make statements.

I can certainly understand this sentiment. I was hesitant to comment at the beginning because of my lack of MP experience. This MTDG, by the way, is my one and only MP game.

But look at it from another perspective. If someone doesn't feel comfortable offering advice, they can at least ask questions. Two things can come from this; the most obvious is that the person will learn a little bit more about the game. But the other benefit is that the question may give someone else an idea that we hadn't previously considered.

Take for instance Killercane's suggestion to burn our GM on Civil Service. I would have never thought to use a GM to lightbulb. I've always been a cash kind of guy. But this one simple suggestion is probably going to be what turns this game around for us!

I'm always happy to chime in, but as I stated when I signed up I wouldn't have too much time to give to this. With the holidays, I'm sorry I haven't been around that much.

My comments were not directed to you, Pindicator. I have no problem with your level of participation. Let's face it, not every one can be logged into this forum 24 hours per day. But I would be shocked if half of the people who signed up for this team have ever made one post in this forum. Unfortunately, those same folks will probably never even see mine and Whomp's comments.

Edit: looked at the screenshots showing that we aren't exporting anything. Have we actually mapped out any trade routes to Epsilon? I know we've seen their cities, but if we haven't mapped out the trade route then that's why we wouldn't get anything from it.

Unfortunately, I'm not really sure what you mean by "mapping a trade route". I'm not familiar with that term. I can tell you, from the demographics screen, that Epsilon is getting 6 commerce (imports) while we are getting no commerce (exports) from the OB treaty. This can also be seen by going through all of our cities and seeing that we have no foreign trade routes. I'm not really sure why and I would not have expected this treaty to be this lopsided.

 

[Sweetacshon]

We have no foreign trade routes because, just like domestic trade routes, there is no road or coastal route between our cities and theirs. We either have to scout along the east coast until we find a port city, or build a road to have trade connections. It should be noted that they have trade routes thru Brilliant!. Yes, they are profiting from OB and we are not. Until we find a city of theirs on the same bit of coast, we get nothing.

We should be up front with them, and say we are sending an envoy to their capital, or at least their closest connected coastal city, so as to open up the trade routes, and they will give us directions to this end. If this is not acceptable, we should cancel OB asap. In fact we could ask for more, considering their duplicity on the beureacracy front. At the very least, send a unit up the isthmus NOW, and we'll get directions from them soon enough.

The taoism idea is great, and we should make trades to this end, even if they may seem a little lopsided now. It's probably lost back in this thread somewhere, but could someone outline the steps needed to achieve this, please?

As for the next moves, we don't seem ready to attack Epsilon.. principally because we still have NO idea of how their cities lie, but at least we have met someone else. If we are not going to attack soon, and probably the time for that has passed, then lets concentrate on getting the economy cranking and get exploring. So what are our strengths? Financial and TGLighthouse implies to me we should get coastal cities with lighthouses for the very easy 3gpt per worked tile - what could be simpler? Longer term, that river running from TC up to the NW has FPs that should be cottaged up. The silver spot is good.. quite good, but it's a little too early imo. Let's face it, we're not playing the AI who just trys to nab land far away from their capital, so we have time. We have a settler, so let's find a spot for him. If that ivory rice spot is gone (which would probably be an economic stretch anyway), let's find a coastal spot with a food resource close to us and get the LH/ lib/ gran in asap. It'll pay for itself, guaranteed. OK, all this without checking the save, but "play to your strengths" is a good adage, imho.

I'm sorry I haven't been around... holidays, you know. I wonder how many others just haven't posted due to this, or just don't read the threads anymore?

 

[Conroe]

The taoism idea is great, and we should make trades to this end, even if they may seem a little lopsided now. It's probably lost back in this thread somewhere, but could someone outline the steps needed to achieve this, please?

The plan is to lightbulb Philosophy with a Great Scientist. We've hired 2 scientists at TC for that purpose and will have the GS in 15 turns IIRC. We need to get Code of Laws and Mathematics before the GS will offer Philosophy.

The silver spot is good.. quite good, but it's a little too early imo. Let's face it, we're not playing the AI who just trys to nab land far away from their capital, so we have time.

We've already got a gold mine, so we are going to be putting up forges in all of our cities for the +1 happy face. Since we are already doing the forges, the silver becomes an instant +2 happy faces when we get it hooked up. If we have the silver we will be able to grow Balderdash to size 9 (size 10 if we manage to get Taoism). That is why I want the silver city.

Now we can do another fishing village first, if that is what the team wants. But then we would need to get Balderdash started on another Settler. This would delay the infrastructure builds at Balderdash, which has very little built. I was hoping to get at least a Library built before we switched to Beaucracy.

 

[Conroe]

We should be up front with them, and say we are sending an envoy to their capital, or at least their closest connected coastal city, so as to open up the trade routes, and they will give us directions to this end. If this is not acceptable, we should cancel OB asap.

OK, I just had a look at the save. Assuming they have a city planted at the rice/ivory spot, it will take our galley 5 or 6 turns to reach the city (depending on its exact location). We cannot cancel OB for another 9 turns.

 

[Kickbooti]

We have no foreign trade routes because, just like domestic trade routes, there is no road or coastal route between our cities and theirs. We either have to scout along the east coast until we find a port city, or build a road to have trade connections. It should be noted that they have trade routes thru Brilliant!. Yes, they are profiting from OB and we are not. Until we find a city of theirs on the same bit of coast, we get nothing.

I need someone to expalain this to me. Surely we are connected to Brilliant via the coast. And if Epsilon is connected to Brilliant how could we NOT have a trade route?

I am confused...

And is Brilliant a cannal? With that mountain to the east I always doubted we could cross the isthmus.

To wit, if we need to play to our strenghts, then I think the pink city might be good. It is coastal, it is definately a canal, and it has access to food.

I still like the ivory stretch...but then I have always been willing to live above my means.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Booti,

if we can't see a clear trade route to their borders then we cant' have trade routes with them. Obviously they can see an open trade route the whole way to us.

 

[pindicator]

Can we get a world map pic here? If we would have had one of those up (or if I wouldn't have been lazy and not downloaded / opened the save) that would have jumped right out for me on discussion about the OB deal.

 

[Conroe]

Here ya go. I couldn't get the whole map into one screenshot.
The first one is the mini-map, followed by the west half, and then the east.

Let me know if you need anything else posted.

 

[Conroe]

Do we want to go after the ivory?



My guess is we would have to plant the city right on top of the ivory to make sure we do not lose it in a culture war.

How do we think Epsilon would react to us going after this city?

Our Settler is at the base of the isthmus. Unfortunately, we have no escort unit, other than a Spearman, available to go with the Settler.

 

[Kickbooti]

I say plant that puppy on the Ivory - but I'm wreckless. If we all lack iron, the elephents become even more important early in the game.

Fortunaely, I'm also fickle, so if/when cooler heads prevail, I will be able to seamlessly jump on board with their decision too.

 

[pindicator]

You only live once: go for the Ivory.

But I can imagine this is Epsilon's thinking once we do:

no recent trades even as we continue to sweeten the pot, and now they are aggressively settling towards us. Do we need to make a pre-emptive strike?

 

[Whomp]

We've extended our peace deal through 250 AD and I'd prefer to have cats before we do anything. Logistically, defending in MP is a lot easier than attacking unless you have strength, diversity and siege imo.

 

[Conroe]

Since we appear to be going for the ivory, I could use some help with the mechanics of doing it. It will take our Settler 6 turns to walk to the spot. That is without escort. Available escorts are the Axeman at Brilliant and a Spearman that is one step behind our Settler. We also have the Galley available.



If we pull the axe out of Brilliant, then Epsilon's Warrior will see that the city is undefended. The Spearman can walk to Brilliant in 6 turns. Or the Galley can come back and pick him up and have him to Brilliant in 5 turns.

Either way we go, Epsilon is going to see an undefended city at some point. Plus, one of the cities (Brilliant, most likely) is going to have a sole Spearman for a defender. Our closest other Axeman is 12 turns away in Treacle Cottage.

All suggestions are welcome! Frankly, I'm not sure of the best way to go about pulling this off.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I would use the galley. that way Epsilon won't have a clue until we can plant at the spot. They might declare on us if we run a settler up there.

 

[Kickbooti]

I agree with Tubs, use the galley.

Even if it takes a bit longer, I wouldn't leave Brilliant undefended.

 

[Whomp]

I would be shocked if they broke a treaty. We have peace till 250 AD. If we're not comfortable with their word then I would do it by galley.

 

[Conroe]

I would use the galley. that way Epsilon won't have a clue until we can plant at the spot.

Wouldn't they suspect our intentions when they saw our Settler in the Galley?

I agree with Tubs, use the galley.

Even if it takes a bit longer, I wouldn't leave Brilliant undefended.

Whether we use the Galley or not, one of the cities will be undefended for a turn or two. The only way around that is to wait the 12 turns it will take to get an Axeman up from TC.

I also believe they will suspect our intention when they see our Galley turn around without actually reaching their borders.

 

[Tubby Rower]

wouldn't the galley be able to transport the escort and the settler? They won't be able to see that Brilliant is unprotected, correct?

 

[Conroe]

OK team, I need some help with this one ...

Remember founding NeedaName last turn? Well, a barb Axeman has just stepped out of the fog. This city has only a Warrior to defend it.



The barb axe will be at the city in 2 turns. Our Warrior can also be back to the city in 2 turns.
What should we do?

1. Kiss the city goodbye and save the Warrior for exploration/fogbusting?
2. Hope for a lucky RNG roll that will save the city?

BTW, this was the city that was going to net us our Caravel for an attempt at the circumnav bonus.

 

[Tubby Rower]

it is on a hill so it might be able to survive. I dunno what is going to happen if the barb prevails... do they keep cities?