Intrateam Succession Game

YossarianLives said:
@Arkipeller, I want to apologize to you because you really did play a great turn set and my comments focused almost exclusively on criticisms, which was not right. For instance, I completely forgot to mention how I really liked that you started opening borders while tracking ai opinions of each other. Managing diplo with the AI is the way to win on higher difficulty levels, and I really suffer in that area, so I am definitely trying to improve my own game from your observations there.

The #1 objective for this game is to have fun, #2 is to learn a thing or two, and a distant #3 is to win or do well. As long as we're having fun, this game is a success. I want to help the team have fun, and don't mean to beat up on anyone.

Also, I consider myself a pretty noob player personally, but I do read a lot here and on RB (lots of Civ-Theory on both sites, CFC for high-level SP, RB for high-level MP), so I try to share what I see working well in other games. The beautiful thing about Civ is that there is rarely One Right Answer, so anything I say is just my personal opinion but is definitely not the only or even best way to proceed.

Ok, that's my rant. I'm not sure I'm going to have a chance to post a plan for my turnset tonight, but I'll see what I can do.
Click to expand...

Hi Yossa, I hope Arki comments were mostly tongue-in-cheek. I appreciate a lot your comments both on this game and our previous intra-team GOTM thing (that I still did not complete, btw). The whole point is to learn and improve, so that is why I am a bit disappointed that the team wants to play strategy at which I suck least ;-)

BTW, can you point me to some reading on high-level MP play on RB? When I was joining our Pitboss, the only MP guide I found was on CFC, and in a nutshell it was saying to fight all the time, forget about economy, military is all that matters... I tried to follow that advice in our Pitboss, with rather disastrous results, and I only realized belatedly that this guide was likely only applicable to these 1-2 hour games people people play only, not to our 1-turn-per-day game :lol: Well, one lives and learn...
 
who's next?
 
Well, technically Maga was up because I passed on my turn. I'm still having major computer issues (i.e. my computer is in storage for the next 3 weeks so I don't have one right now!), but I talked to Caledorn and he is going to help me out by playing the turn through chat. So, here is the current roster as I see it:

YossarianLives<<< Up Now!
Maga_R<<< On Deck
Caledorn
Bowsling
tobiasn
Arkipeller
classical_hero<<< Just played

Does that look right to everyone? Maybe we can move Maga_R below Caledorn and/or Bowsling depending on how much speed we can get going. Props to Arkipeller and classical_hero for keeping the game humming along. My apologies for delaying things again. Depending on how I can coordinate things with Cal, I hope we can get my turnset played over the next couple days.

So right now I'm thinking that our major issue we need to address is our low happy cap. Based just on the pictures without being able to open up the save, it looks like we have four options to fix this:

  1. Build the 'Mids. On T85 at this difficulty level, our window for accomplishing this is very limited. We'll need to bring all our workers to Daiva to complete the Stone Quarry and then chop 5/6 of the first-ring forests to complete the 'Mids in the next 5 turns or so in order to stand any chance of this working. As long as we have 5 workers available, we should be able to time it to complete all the chops on the same turn, switch to the Pyramids, and 1-turn the wonder (5 forests with maths & stone = 60:hammers: each, and I believe the 'Mids are 300:hammers: total). That way, if the AI completes them before us, we can stop the chops and don't waste any turns on a failed wonder. If we are able to land the 'Mids, we can switch to either Rep or HR for extra :)
  2. Beeline CoL to land a religion (with a free missionary). That'll give us +1 happy in two cities (probably the holy city and the cap). Plus it will open up our cheap temples for one more :). This plan is a little riskier since we are quite a few turns away from CoL, and an AI could complete it before us. However, it has a lot of synergy with our Espionage Economy plan so it might be the best option for that reason alone.
  3. Beeline Monarchy for HR. This is a guaranteed way to increase our happy cap, but it will take us awhile to tech Monarchy and it doesn't really fit in with our other plans at this point...
  4. Tech Calendar to hook-up Spices for +1:). This is another guaranteed way to increase our happy, but the benefit would be pretty minor since we only increase our happy cap by 1 until we can get more Calendar resources into our borders, and I don't see any based on the latest screenshots...
What does the team think about this? Which option should I focus on during my turnset? I'm leaning towards attempting the Mids, while switching our research path towards CoL as a back-up. If they both fail, we'll still be a little closer to Monarchy as a Plan C. If we do land the 'Mids, then we can switch back to Currency or something else in the next 5 turns or so.

Besides that, I guess I'll keep working on those libraries while growing to the happy cap, then stagnating on workers / settlers, whipping whenever our happiness penalties expire.
 
YossarianLives said:
Well, technically Maga was up because I passed on my turn. I'm still having major computer issues (i.e. my computer is in storage for the next 3 weeks so I don't have one right now!), but I talked to Caledorn and he is going to help me out by playing the turn through chat. So, here is the current roster as I see it:

YossarianLives<<< Up Now!
Maga_R<<< On Deck
Caledorn
Bowsling
tobiasn
Arkipeller
classical_hero<<< Just played

Does that look right to everyone? Maybe we can move Maga_R below Caledorn and/or Bowsling depending on how much speed we can get going. Props to Arkipeller and classical_hero for keeping the game humming along. My apologies for delaying things again. Depending on how I can coordinate things with Cal, I hope we can get my turnset played over the next couple days.

So right now I'm thinking that our major issue we need to address is our low happy cap. Based just on the pictures without being able to open up the save, it looks like we have four options to fix this:

  1. Build the 'Mids. On T85 at this difficulty level, our window for accomplishing this is very limited. We'll need to bring all our workers to Daiva to complete the Stone Quarry and then chop 5/6 of the first-ring forests to complete the 'Mids in the next 5 turns or so in order to stand any chance of this working. As long as we have 5 workers available, we should be able to time it to complete all the chops on the same turn, switch to the Pyramids, and 1-turn the wonder (5 forests with maths & stone = 60:hammers: each, and I believe the 'Mids are 300:hammers: total). That way, if the AI completes them before us, we can stop the chops and don't waste any turns on a failed wonder. If we are able to land the 'Mids, we can switch to either Rep or HR for extra :)
  2. Beeline CoL to land a religion (with a free missionary). That'll give us +1 happy in two cities (probably the holy city and the cap). Plus it will open up our cheap temples for one more :). This plan is a little riskier since we are quite a few turns away from CoL, and an AI could complete it before us. However, it has a lot of synergy with our Espionage Economy plan so it might be the best option for that reason alone.
  3. Beeline Monarchy for HR. This is a guaranteed way to increase our happy cap, but it will take us awhile to tech Monarchy and it doesn't really fit in with our other plans at this point...
  4. Tech Calendar to hook-up Spices for +1:). This is another guaranteed way to increase our happy, but the benefit would be pretty minor since we only increase our happy cap by 1 until we can get more Calendar resources into our borders, and I don't see any based on the latest screenshots...
What does the team think about this? Which option should I focus on during my turnset? I'm leaning towards attempting the Mids, while switching our research path towards CoL as a back-up. If they both fail, we'll still be a little closer to Monarchy as a Plan C. If we do land the 'Mids, then we can switch back to Currency or something else in the next 5 turns or so.

Besides that, I guess I'll keep working on those libraries while growing to the happy cap, then stagnating on workers / settlers, whipping whenever our happiness penalties expire.
Click to expand...

I would like to pass up my turn - or play after June 5th. Very busy with work, cannot focus on the game or make plans now. Playing this mindlessly and in hurry seems pointless. I thought Arki wanted to play for me. Can we please pass me and put Arki/next in line on the deck?
 
Maga_R said:
I would like to pass up my turn - or play after June 5th. Very busy with work, cannot focus on the game or make plans now. Playing this mindlessly and in hurry seems pointless. I thought Arki wanted to play for me. Can we please pass me and put Arki/next in line on the deck?
Click to expand...

We may switch places. I may late monday
 
Arkipeller said:
We may switch places. I may late monday
Click to expand...

Maga_R said:
Great, thanks! I can only play after June 5th, please pass me by until that time.
Click to expand...

Alright, so it looks like this:

YossarianLives<<< Up now!
Arkipeller<<< On deck for Maga_R
Caledorn
Bowsling
tobiasn
Maga_R for Arkipeller?
classical_hero<<< Just played

But if Maga_R can play earlier and others don't mind I think she can jump in whenever works.
 
Alright, sorry about the long delay in playing the turn and getting a report written out. Many, many, many thanks to classical_hero, who stayed up half the night to play through the turn on chat with me. I owe you one, buddy!

So at any rate, here is the turn report. If anyone is able to open the save and post some pictures, that would be great.

The basic plan is to get Stone hooked up and then chop the Pyramids in Daivagati. The rest of the cities will grow while building Libraries, then switch to Workers / Settlers at the happy cap, to be whipped to completion.

T85 - First things first, we locate all six of our workers, as we'll need them to attempt this Pyramids plan. They're all out of movement for this turn, but after some discussion Classy and I identify three that are within range to start the Stone quarry on T86, completing it on T87. Ok, part one, check! Mantra is at it's happy cap, so we switch that from a Library to a Settler. Everything else is good to go for the turn.

T86 - Ok, the three workers move into place and start quarrying the Stone. Another two workers move towards the forests near Daiva to start chopping next turn. Our completed Settler is able to settle our Horse desert city (Lana), so the spare worker moves over that way to start farming the Wheat. We'll pasture the horse after we have a decent food tile to work there. Lana starts on a Granary. Our exploring warrior finds Silver up north :) At this point I remember that we talked about getting the religious techs to work towards Code of Laws, so we switch off Currency, but turn off research to save gold for a little while first. At this point, I also realize that the 'Mids cost 500 :hammers:, not 300 like I thought. Whoops! :eek: Well, so much for 1-turning the wonder like I hoped, so we switch over to the 'Mids immediately. Now I can only hope that we still have enough production power to get those extra 200 hammers I didn't account for. At least we have an extra 2 forests I wasn't planning on using...

T87 - :sleep:

T88 - Mehmed requests OB, (after wishing for Arkipeller who has been keeping great track of AI attitudes) we say yes. 2 Chops go into the 'Mids! More to come in the following turns. We 2-pop whip Mantra's Settler.

T90 (guess I lost a turn somewhere, maybe last turn was t89?) - Indira and Terasvin grow, get switched to Workers. The Settler moves towards our Copper city site. We debate the city site for awhile, until I realize I am telling classical_hero to plant southeast of the copper when I meant southwest. Thank goodness he didn't just listen to me, as that would have been a terrible location! We also debate research path for a bit. These new cities are really crashing our economy... In the end we decide it's best to finish Currency before the religious techs, since Currency also helps us get CoL faster. Also the extra trade routes and ability to build Wealth are really becoming necessary. We still need a turn or two at 0% research, so we switch to Currency but keep the slider at 0%. At the end of the turn we're able to 2-pop whip Indira's Worker, so I guess we switched that to a Worker last turn, not this turn...

T91 - We meet Isabella of Inca! Raj is settled for copper. We whip the worker out of Terasvin. This puts it's happy cap at size 2, but that will increase to S3 in a couple turns, and if we get the 'Mids we can revolt to HR or Rep to increase the Happy cap further. After all my -talk about the Great Mayan Road, we decide to build a road up to Boudica of Zulu for the extra trade route. :blush: I believe all the forest chops have now been completed into the 'Mids. T95 will be the completion date. All we can do now is hope that nobody else beats us to it...

T92 :sleep:

T93 - Izzy is sending some Christian Missionaries our way

T94 - We got The Pyramids!!! I must have been one turn off. I am pretty sure it was T94 when Classy said we got them! At this point we stopped so we can talk about what we'll do with this shiny new wonder!

I am trying to attach the save but I can't seem to get it from Skype to the computer, or from Skype into this post... Hopefully classical_hero can post the save here when he has time. Sorry again for the delay in getting the turns played. Thanks again Classy!
 
Arkipeller<<< Up now for Maga_R!
Caledorn<<< On deck
Bowsling
tobiasn
Maga_R for Arkipeller?
classical_hero
YossarianLives<<< Just played

I'm not sure if Caledorn posted this somewhere or just mentioned it to me on chat, but we'll probably need to skip his turn so Bowsling should get ready to go after Arkipeller in that case.
 
classical_hero said:
While we wait for you to play, you could post a plan you have for your turnset. that way we can discuss it and see what can be done.
Click to expand...

The problem is, I do not have time to do plans now - that is the time consuming part. And anyway Yossarian says he is up now.
 
Maga_R said:
The problem is, I do not have time to do plans now - that is the time consuming part. And anyway Yossarian says he is up now.
Click to expand...

He has just played with some help from me.

The save is currently at turn 95 where since we just got the Mids we can revolt to a better form of government.
 

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Hmmm... watching our total achievements:

Positive:
We are the fastest growing empire considering city-growth
We are close to the commerce-leadership.
We got the MIDS! We got TGW!
Shared with Mehmed of Holy Rome: we are those who got most cities!

Neutral (got no real effect on game yet):
We got open borders and foreign trade in all of our city
We still haven't met the last AI
We got low population than the average AI, but number of cities outdo this fact.

Negative:
We are the weakest in Power. 50% of leader
We got foreign religion inside our borders, when we are planning our own religion :(
 
Notes turn 95:

Isabella seems to be a critical counterpart in this game right now. We need to choose one of two tactics:

1-Join Christianity permanently
2-Close Borders and change to our religion when it comes as fast as possible.

1) Causes less intrigues with christian countries (currently a majority). We may still have a religion under the surface that we spread, but when having a religion already spread, this comes with a failure-rate. It seems that unless 2)+AP happens to us, this religion will get the AP bonus. Doing this will enforce the Economical power of Isabella (Church of Nativity)

2) Breaking ties with Isabella makes Christianity spread less and gives her no possibility to trade with us, reducing chance of commerce. We will at one point ( converting stage) become quite unpopular. Spreading our own religion becomes easier, since it goes automatically sometimes (the religion-algorithm is one unclean arse of clumsiness)
 
Current notes on all counterparts:

Isabella of Incas - (Christian Leader, 3 cities, 265 points)
Isabella got active HR, Slavery and OR - Which means she got Monarchy and Monotheism.
Isabella owns the Oracle, producing a prophet for her and giving lots of culture.
Owning Oracle means Isabella got Priesthood.
I suspect Isabella owns 2 of the 3 religions currently known.
Hater Ragnar, due religious differences.
She spies on us!

Boudica of Zulu - (Christian, 4 cities, 231 points)
The Zulu got their special unit - Impi's
Boudica got still lots of space to expand
They are our western neighbors
Besides knowing they got many basic classical techs as Bronze Working and Writing, we know little of their research.

Willem of Maya - (Pagan, 5 cities, 221 points)
Willem is our eastern neighbor.
Most of his land is mapped
He spies on us in a large scale!
We are trading with him for mutial commecial profit
We know that since I wrote Willem has aquired Masonry, due Walls in Capitol
If we get a religion fast, Willem could be a victim of a fast growing religious disease through our commercial trade and no religion.:D
Owns a lot of forests

Lizzy of Ottomans - (Pagan, 4 cities ,220 points)
Lizzy owns the Stonehenge and there is a GP unaccounted for.
We got many spypoints towards her.
If we get a religion fast, Lizzy could be a victim of a fast growing religious disease through our commercial trade and no religion.:D
Lizzy got Gold and Marble!
Owns a lot of forests
Does not know Ragnar, so they are not close

Pacal of Egypt - (Christian, 4 cities , 208 points)
Pacal is our neighbor to southeast.
Egypt got The Wheel and Horses. This means that War Chariots is available.
Pacal got a good attitude towards us
We are currently mapping his lands
Pacal got jungles (poor bastard)
We got many spypoints towards him.
Pacal has mapped our lands

Us - (Christian, 6 cities, 204 points)

Ragnar of Native America - (Jew, 4 cities ,200 points)
Ragnar is hated by Isabella
I suspect Ragnar being either close to Isabella or the unknown civ.
Ragnar spies on us very slowly.
Does not know Lizzy, so they are not that close

Mehmed of Holy Rome -(Pagan, 6 cities, 187 points)
We do not know where he is on the map
He got a source of horses (Chariot-threats at start of diplomatic conversations)
He has spent lots of Spypoints against us.
 
Awesome analysis Arkipeller! This really helps me visualize things a lot more clearly.

Given our current power ranking and the fact that two of our neighbors are Christian ( and boa is aggressive by nature), I think we should stay in Christianity and ally ourselves with the Christian block. I'm definitely weaker in the religion and espy aspects of this game. If we found another religion at CoL, but stay in Christianity and spread the new religion to our enemies ( as much as possible, might be harder if we can't get ob, but it looks like we could at least start with Willem of Maya), then do we still get the espy bonus in the foreign cities with our religion, even if we haven't converted ourselves?

I definitely think it's time to start building up or army... A good goal for the next turn set.

What is the best civic change for us to make? Rep for an immediate +3 :) in all cities and the bonus on our scientists once the libraries complete, or HR for an immediate +1 :) in all our cities with garrisons and the ability to spam out warriors for focused happy increases where we need them?
 
I'll take my turns this evening. Maybe while chatting with Maga/Cal.
 
Remember you can change civics as soon as you start. I would suggest switching to Rep, but maybe HR for five turns would be better, then you can switch to Rep once some of the libraries complete.

Growing and building a small army is the order of the day, imo. We can't really settle new cities until we get our economy back on track.

I'm not sure when this evening is for you, but feel free to chat me also if you would like. :)
 
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