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Intrateam Succession Game

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by YossarianLives, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Alright, I gave your report a closer read and took a closer look at the screenshots. Arki, you definitely played this turnset differently than I would have (and differently than we discussed in the pre-turn discussion). Since the main purpose is to learn and improve our games, I am going to make some comments that I hope you don't take personally:

    • We need to get more Settlers out ASAP! We can already see the Zulu starting to take up land that should be ours. Whatever happened to the plan to chop / 2-pop whip a Settler out of Indira?
    • We have Stone right outside of our borders so I don't understand why we didn't settle and improve that before starting on TGW. I think we could have gotten an extra city out and still not lost any time on the completion date for TGW.
    • I really don't like purposely avoiding high-food tiles. If we find ourselves hitting our happy cap, we should switch to Workers or Settlers, rather than moving off of good tiles. Working a 0:food:1:hammers:1:gold: unimproved desert hill at Terasvin seems very suboptimal.
    • The Great Mayan Road also seems like a suboptimal use of our Fast Workers, but the commerce bonus we have now is good. For future reference, it takes 50% more worker turns to improve desert tiles compared to non-desert, so you could have completed the road faster by running it south of the mountains instead of north.
    • I like that you whipped the Granary in Mantra. Working high-food tiles and whipping out infra is the way to go! :goodjob:
    • Mantra should get a FP farm or two to help it grow / whip faster
    • I don't think Terasvin needs a Library yet, let's whip out a Settler ASAP
    • Since we are almost done with TGW without stone, we can ignore the Stone city for now. Our next city should be 1SW of the Copper, then we need one that will get Horses + Cow + Wheat, then we need cities to get the northern wheat and pigs, and the city 1N of stone will still be a decent border city with the Zulu.
    • We'll also need a lot more workers to improve all these cities we plan on building.

    That's a general plan for what I would hope to accomplish in the next turnset. Any comments?

    Edit: I don't hope to accomplish all that in the next turn, but that's the direction I want to take us.
     
  2. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Turn order:

    YossarianLives<<< Up Now!
    Maga_R<<< On Deck
    Caledorn
    Bowsling
    tobiasn
    <<< Passed
    Arkipeller<<< Just played
     
  3. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    I am feeling better so if you guys don't mind, I can take this turn.
     
  4. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Hi classical_ hero, that's great, I'm glad to hear you're doing better. Please do take this turn.
     
  5. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    I have some suggestions for some city sites.
    This one is for the stone which we should have got early, but that can be fixed. This should be done for the next city.


    Here are two more potential sites.




    So I assume we are going for Currency as our next major tech?

    City orders.
    Indira - Finish TGW then build a settler.

    Terasvin - Work farmed FP and whip library once we can, when we go into unhappiness and then build a settler.

    Mantra - Allow to grow and build a warrior (or axes?) or two for the two new cities. When the city grows to 3 use the mined hill and once finished second unit build a settler.

    Where will that 1 turn to chop forest :hammers: go to? that does make it hard to decide when to do it. I hope it goes to Terasvin.

    I am thinking considering that our capital is rather poorly located, should we eventually move it to a better site?

    We are up to turn 73 how long is my turn? Ending on 83 seems to rather odd, so end it on turn 85?
     
  6. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Great plan, thanks for posting it! I like your placement for the stone and horse cities. The copper-pigs city should maybe go 1S of your location. How many workers do we have? We'll definitely need more with all those cities you plan on setlling. Maybe get one out of Terasvin before the settler? In fact, you can probably switch off the library, 2- pop whip the worker next turn, overflow onto a settler, then switch back to the library to grow back to size 4 so you can go back to the setller and 2- pop whip that.

    I imagine Mantra's monument will let it pop borders soon so you can decide which city to give the hammers. Best wait until that happens so you get all 20 hammers from the chop.

    We'll definitely move the capital. I'm thinking that Mantra is our best option for this, so we should save some forests for this purpose.

    T85 sounds like a good stopping point.
     
  7. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Well I will only have time to possibly plant one city, so it will up for the team to decide where they think it is better to go to.
     
  8. Arkipeller

    Arkipeller Ancient of Lore

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    Should be next turn
     
  9. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Turn 73 - I switch from unworked hill to farmed FP in Terasvin. I also switched from Library to worker.

    Turn 74 - In Terasvin I whipped a worker for two pop. Mantra builds a granary and starts a warrior and it also expands it's territory.

    Turn 75 - A worker is built in Terasvin.

    Turn 76 - A GP is born in a far away place. I decrease the sci rate otherwise we would have run out of gold. @70% we get +2g

    Turn 77 - We meet Ragnar of NA (a scout with +20%). We build TGW in Indira. The Oracle has been built in a far away country. Increase sci rate back to 80% and -1g

    Turn 78 - I chop the forest for 20 hammers in Terasvin. I realised after that I should have waited until next turn to get 10 more. :wallbash: Maths in 1 turn. I hurry a worker in Indira for two pop and decrease sci rate back to 70% with +1 gold.

    Turn 79 - We discover Mathematics and start on Currency. I was going to set the rate to 100% gold to get more benefit out of libraries, then I realised we don't have any. Thank goodness I remembered that fact. Rate is 80% at -2 with Currency in 20, but it will have to alternate between 70 and 80% since that makes it equal gold for two turns.

    Turn 80 - Mantra produces a warrior and starts on another one.

    Turn 81 - Ragnar switches to Judaism. A barb warrior shows upon the road to Maya and DoR kills it without a scratch. We find Elizabeth of Ottoman's border and we sing an OB with her.

    Turn 82 - A barb warrior shows up north. Our warrior "Champion of Tundras" is on a forest.

    Turn 83 - our warrior CoT defends against barb warrior and lives with a promotion. I gave him the woodsman promotion. Mantra builds a warrior and starts on a library. Terasvin grows to 4 pop and I switch from lib to settler and whip it for 2 pop. Temporarily the city has 2 :mad: until next turn when it is just one.

    Turn 84 - Terasvin builds a settler and starts on a library. the settler heads for the stone city site.

    Turn 85 - Indira builds a settler and heads for the horse location. A library is started next(Perhap we could start the Pyramids?). The settler is settled and the city of Daivagati is formed and a granary is started.

    Worker actions.
    Around Mantra I have improved a few tiles and I have got the pigs in a pasture. I also cottaged the farm near Terasvin.
    The actions to follow are to go to the new city near the horses and get the corn and horses hooked up. The stone needs to be quarried and that is the next action for the two workers in Daivagati.

    Some things of note. We have a low happiness cap which is why we should go for Monarchy next, via the cheapest route, or doing Poly, since it is an important tech. Perhaps I am thinking we get the pyramids in the Capital and instead go for Calendar. I have 3 libraries in production so that we can start to go for 100% gold and then get the benefit of 100% sci with the libraries. We need to explore south some more since it looks to be rich in happiness resources which we sorely lack.

    Here are some screenshots.
    Our lands


    Our northern region


    Our southern lands


    Ottoman lands so far


    Mayan lands


    Zulu lands
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    Since you guys want to try espionage economy, we need to found our own religion. This is the only way to do EE right :D it is much more important than TGW, in my opinion. TGW only give you an early Great Spy - I agree with Sommers, it is really bad a$$ :D. But after stilling couple crucial techs early - assuming we will find anybody to steal from, lol - the whole benefit is gone (except lasting miniscule contribution to GSpy points). Our own religion - which should be spread abroad asap - gives us huge and lasting espionage discount.
     
  11. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Well we would need then to get Code of Laws since it is the closest religious founding tech we have.

    One thing I am thinking of is that while Indira doesn't look that promising now it will be an excellent Great Person farm should we want to since there will be enough food and production to make that happen.
     
  12. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    Yeah, we did no try for earlier ones, so we should go for Code of Laws. Moreover, courthouses are key building for espionage economy, so we want them early. So CoL fits perfectly :D
     
  13. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Just a quick "got it" post. Will look at the last turn set more closely later and post my thoughts and plans.
     
  14. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    I will try to chime in a bit to the discussion, but I would rather play my turnset after June 6th - have important deadline at work that day.
     
  15. Arkipeller

    Arkipeller Ancient of Lore

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    I can play turns at any time, if you like the game ruined even more :blush:
     
  16. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    I would take your offer gladly :) I do not hope to do well at all now, as my mind is occupied with another stuff. Although I am sure you are just being modest :lol:
     
  17. Arkipeller

    Arkipeller Ancient of Lore

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    By now the only person that has complemented my unusual strategies of survival is Aivo in our Pitboss, so don't consider myself modest... rather real. By now my role in this team is Court Jester and Storyteller (None of them is needed in a team).

    Beside my usual coplayer (who is at my level) noone has seen me finished a game in multiplayer. The main thing is that I have never talked about Civ-Theory before joining this team with anyone, I've never read anything either. So my usual Monarch-level with Religious Focus is pretty much useless here and I felt after the judgement of Yossa that I should maybe have stayed out of this.

    I'm not used to have high Espionage levels, but I did read some espionage formulas used to calculate chances, so I was thinking of making an easy-usable Spy SpreadSheet if I get bored while my students are reading for their final exams.
    This is nearly new for me, I've used spies earlier to infiltrate cities instead of bombarding and sabotage important resources (Like the German Marble in our Diplomacy game would have been toast long time ago, so RB had to renegotiate)

    Once again: sorry for disappointing. I am here to learn
     
  18. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    Hi Arki, SpySpreadsheet is a very neat idea. I think we do not have spies yet, but should get there soon now, I think, with TGW completed. Espionage economy is probably the most difficult one to plan because of the chance factor you mentioned, but it will be still very useful to know what are our expected chances. And you could verify if my hunch that founding religion is more important than building TGW is true.
     
  19. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    The whole point of this is to learn. What is the best way to learn? To make mistakes and see what needs to be done to rectify them. I don't think we even have the best ever player on Civ so everyone can learn from everyone. No matter how good or bad you are, we are team mates and thus we are equals here.
     
  20. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    @Arkipeller, I want to apologize to you because you really did play a great turn set and my comments focused almost exclusively on criticisms, which was not right. For instance, I completely forgot to mention how I really liked that you started opening borders while tracking ai opinions of each other. Managing diplo with the AI is the way to win on higher difficulty levels, and I really suffer in that area, so I am definitely trying to improve my own game from your observations there.

    The #1 objective for this game is to have fun, #2 is to learn a thing or two, and a distant #3 is to win or do well. As long as we're having fun, this game is a success. I want to help the team have fun, and don't mean to beat up on anyone.

    Also, I consider myself a pretty noob player personally, but I do read a lot here and on RB (lots of Civ-Theory on both sites, CFC for high-level SP, RB for high-level MP), so I try to share what I see working well in other games. The beautiful thing about Civ is that there is rarely One Right Answer, so anything I say is just my personal opinion but is definitely not the only or even best way to proceed.

    Ok, that's my rant. I'm not sure I'm going to have a chance to post a plan for my turnset tonight, but I'll see what I can do.
     

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