Iran about to get wiped from the pages of history

[CurtSibling]

I suppose the next logical step for GW Bush in his quest to inflict more of his faith-based nightmare on the USA is to institute the military draft.
There is no other way for the straining US Forces to cope. For the Republicans, it will serve to clear the streets of minorities and people they
find undesirable. The draft is a great way to get dissidents out of the way, or into jail if they protest. The draft will force Americans to support
the war even more, as it drops them between the teeth of being pragmatic or patriotic.

Few Americans want to be seen as no-loyal or traitors to the cause. Patriotism can be exploited.

The darft will make sure the youth are hardwired to obey and conform. The provision of expendable military drones is not the only benefit the draft gives, it also enables him to push his ideals onto the America's young men. I can see the draft perhaps helping with crime, but if the wars of the Bush regime get out of hand, then more and more people will be grabbed from jobs and homes, forced to fight and die in wars that only serve to further the goals of Bush and his PNAC cronies. And what if the war drags on for years?

Imagine an expensive draft program that saps the youth and skills from the USA,
and an endless war against an fanatical enemy that descends into an eternal jihad.

Where that would leave the Western world?

Open to Asian domination, I would bet.

...

 

[Captain Planet]

I suppose the next logical step for GW Bush in his quest to inflict more of his faith-based nightmare on the USA is to institute the military draft.
There is no other way for the straining US Forces to cope. For the Republicans, it will serve to clear the streets of minorities and people they
find undesirable. The draft is a great way to get dissidents out of the way, or into jail if they protest. The draft will force Americans to support
the war even more, as it drops them between the teeth of being pragmatic or patriotic.

Few Americans want to be seen as no-loyal or traitors to the cause. Patriotism can be exploited.

The darft will make sure the youth are hardwired to obey and conform. The provision of expendable military drones is not the only benefit the draft gives, it also enables him to push his ideals onto the America's young men. I can see the draft perhaps helping with crime, but if the wars of the Bush regime get out of hand, then more and more people will be grabbed from jobs and homes, forced to fight and die in wars that only serve to further the goals of Bush and his PNAC cronies. And what if the war drags on for years?

Imagine an expensive draft program that saps the youth and skills from the USA,
and an endless war against an fanatical enemy that descends into an eternal jihad.

Where that would leave the Western world?

Open to Asian domination, I would bet.

...

Im staring at the Ambassador Bridge right now. I'll make room in the apartment for some of the draft dodgers coming over!

Does anyone still live in Detroit??????????

 

[Xenocrates]

You're right Gin; as usual.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

I can see the draft perhaps helping with crime.

I doubt that. Large numbers of conscripts with low morale lends itself to rampant drug issues. Not the mention the psychological problems that are created by war. Look at the problems of hard drug addiction in Vietnam, or the more recent rash of problems associated with Russian conscripts returning to their hometowns all messed up from war and drugs.

EDIT: Largely Russian conscripts coming back from Chechnya, that is.

 

[ravensfire]

They can also be used as interdiction forces in the gulf to enforce the UN sanctions.

Most importantly, the carriers are there as a visible means of influence in the region. A US Carrier is the ultimate reminder in the power of the United States. NO other country has even one carrier that can match a Nimitz class ship, let alone the capabilities of her escorts.

These fleets are a reminder that the US can project power just about anywhere in the world, and project it quickly. Someone once described a carrier fleet as a moving bubble of 200km that things exist it only at the pleasure of the commander.

It's not the guns, bombs and missiles that are the major weapon of a carrier group, it's the power and influence that a carrier brings.

-- Ravensfire

 

[zenspiderz]

Link to a nice but short photo tour of the poeple some of you would gleefully like to see wiped from the pages of history.

link

 

[zenspiderz]

BTW... If it does come to pass that the US or Isreal attacks Iran then I sincerely hope that the Iranians soundly defeat them. I hope much more nothing happens and no one gets hurt especially any Iranians.

 

[ravensfire]

BTW... If it does come to pass that the US or Isreal attacks Iran then I sincerely hope that the Iranians soundly defeat them. I hope much more nothing happens and no one gets hurt especially any Iranians.

If the US attacks Iran, I'm quite confident that they would utterly defeat the Iranian military. The combination of equipment, technology and training of the US military is beyond what any other country can handle. Iran would be militarily defeated in months, at most.

The US cannot, however, conquer or occupy Iran, thus resulting in a political defeat. The ability of any country with rational views towards civilians in todays environment of terrorism and insurgency eliminates the chance of political victory. Bluntly, insurgents are willing to do things a rational military is not. All you need is a population that is indifferent (or worse) to the occupation, and the occupation will fail.

-- Ravensfire

 

[EdwardTking]

I doubt that. Large numbers of conscripts with low morale lends itself to rampant drug issues. Not the mention the psychological problems that are created by war. Look at the problems of hard drug addiction in Vietnam, or the more recent rash of problems associated with Russian conscripts returning to their hometowns all messed up from war and drugs.

EDIT: Largely Russian conscripts coming back from Chechnya, that is.

So, you empty the gaols of all the druggies and the streets of all the young black or white trash welfare claimants and send them to Iran and tell the officers to only issue the drugs if they fight or play hopscotch in minefield.

In WW2 the soviets did wonders using punishment battalions of criminals and political prisoners to get the Nazis to reveal their concealed positions.

 

[Winner]

If the US attacks Iran, I'm quite confident that they would utterly defeat the Iranian military. The combination of equipment, technology and training of the US military is beyond what any other country can handle. Iran would be militarily defeated in months, at most.

That would be true if the US military wasn't already stretched thin. I don't think US can amass enough troops to invade Iran and keep order in Iraq and Afghanistan at the same time.

Iran would retaliate against Israel, US allies and it would most probably cut off the oil supplies from Persian Gulf.

US would win, eventually, but it would be painful victory, nothing like Iraq.

 

[bhsup]

I keep noticing the word empire throughout this thread. I feel embarrassed to have to point this out to so many educated and intelligent people, but the United States is not an empire. We don't have governor generals, military governors, and so forth scattered throughout the world running a lot of nations we've conquered.

Yes, we are very influential, but that certainly does not make an empire.

 

[Whomp]

Like most things around CFC it's interesting to see how many non Americans, contrary to Americans, believe we're going to wipe the Iranians from the pages of history.

 

[REDY]

I dont know much about Iranian military, but the lenght of possible war will depend how regime care about their country and how normal Iranians will feel patriotism. Of course, its possible that regime will surrender hour after was attacked, or Iranian soldiers will not trust that they are fighting for right thing,...or it will be blood bath of invading soldiers where Iranians will fight for every meter of city ruin. The morale of people who truly believe that they are defending their country was allways much higher than soldiers who dont know why they are there.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Link to a nice but short photo tour of the poeple some of you would gleefully like to see wiped from the pages of history.

link

While I enjoy the photos of all the happy Iranian people, I don't really understand the point of showing all the skyscrapers over and over. Is the point that the Iranians are relatively wealthier people (compared to say, Somalis), and therefore should be spared?

 

[skadistic]

That would be true if the US military wasn't already stretched thin. I don't think US can amass enough troops to invade Iran and keep order in Iraq and Afghanistan at the same time.

.

The US military is not stretched thin, less then 10% is in Iraq. Most sit in barracks in Japan and Germany. Thats just active duty, include reserves and national gaurd and the numbers go up alott.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

The US military is not stretched thin, less then 10% is in Iraq. Most sit in barracks in Japan and Germany. Thats just active duty, include reserves and national gaurd and the numbers go up alott.

Hordes of air force and naval personnel aren't particularly useful in patrolling Iraq's streets. Only a fraction of the reserves can be deployed abroad for an extended period of time, and at any given time, 2/3s of the army should be either resting or preparing for their next deployment. That leaves the cupboard fairly bare.

It is true that there are troops in Korea, Japan, and Germany who could potentially go to Iraq, but I have a feeling that most are air force and navy. And do you really want to pull the army out of Korea? What is the best you could do, send 10 thousand more soldiers to Iraq?

 

[zenspiderz]

If the US attacks Iran, I'm quite confident that they would utterly defeat the Iranian military. The combination of equipment, technology and training of the US military is beyond what any other country can handle. Iran would be militarily defeated in months, at most.

The US cannot, however, conquer or occupy Iran, thus resulting in a political defeat. The ability of any country with rational views towards civilians in todays environment of terrorism and insurgency eliminates the chance of political victory. Bluntly, insurgents are willing to do things a rational military is not. All you need is a population that is indifferent (or worse) to the occupation, and the occupation will fail.

-- Ravensfire

I am a little more optimistic of Iran's chances. You are suffering from a certain amount imperial hubris methinks. Pride goeth before a fall brother... Veitnam, Bay of Pigs, war of 1812, etc..

btw there is nothing rational about the US's military escapades. Defending your country against invaders (being an 'insurgent' if you prefer) may not be wholly rationial either but it is rather more rational than the motivations of the invaders IMHO. In anycase rationality has never had anything very much to do with war and certianly has still less effect on the relative success of the efforts.

 

[Bigfoot]

An invasion of Iran is not feasible, at least not without resuming the draft. That isn't going to happen given the current political climate, although I suppose another 9/11 type event could change that <shudder>. Even if it were feasible, what would an invasion of Iran would accomplish? There is no chance whatsoever that the US could occupy and administer the place. Does the US really benefit from creating an even bigger power vacuum in the middle east? If so, it is hard to see how.

 

[zenspiderz]

While I enjoy the photos of all the happy Iranian people, I don't really understand the point of showing all the skyscrapers over and over. Is the point that the Iranians are relatively wealthier people (compared to say, Somalis), and therefore should be spared?

Well I didn't make it. If it had been up to me I would have shown more people and less buildings. Personally I think we should all be spared the rabid ravages of the US war machine somalis included.

 

[skadistic]

Hordes of air force and naval personnel aren't particularly useful in patrolling Iraq's streets. Only a fraction of the reserves can be deployed abroad for an extended period of time, and at any given time, 2/3s of the army should be either resting or preparing for their next deployment. That leaves the cupboard fairly bare.

It is true that there are troops in Korea, Japan, and Germany who could potentially go to Iraq, but I have a feeling that most are air force and navy. And do you really want to pull the army out of Korea? What is the best you could do, send 10 thousand more soldiers to Iraq?

Ummm.... If you leave the ones in SK there you could easily send another 300 - 500k troops anywhere to fight. Logistically its very doable. Its the politics that get in the way. I've been to a military base or two over seas and even the AFB have plenty of army and marine stationed on the base. And Germany has the largest stationing of land troops out side the US, even bigger then SK. They are tank , infantry and mech.infantry units.