Iran and a Tiny Nuke?

[CartesianFart]

untrue. i am a product of that school system and i can assure you no such thing happens. Sure a few "Death to Isreal" and "Death to Americas" here and there, but we are not racist. Just because we are Aryan doesnt mean we consider ourselves superior.

EDIT: forgot to say, the "Death to" whatevers arent actually believed or wanted by the teachers or the students. Its just political propaganda. Half of those people have friends and relatives there.

Untrue again,i have a few Iranians that runs a drive-thru[where u can get some beverages and snacks by driving thru in your car]and told me from thier impression from what they were growing up that the majority[the poor] feels superior than their eastern,western neighbors.

Is it possible that your viewpoint is bias of not seeing the 'whole' aspect of Iranian society?And yes,propoganda is laced not only in the media,but also text-book ridden materials as well

 

[Japanrocks12]

"Mr. Fanatic"? Can't you think up anything more original than that? Like "Paranoid Fundie Death Leader of Doom". "Mr. Fanatic" is a pathetic name to call someone; if you're going to insult someone, at least do so in a semi-damaging manner, to do otherwise just shows your stupidity, and we wouldn't want that, now would we? Despite your doing it so often and in such a blatant way, let's try and keep the stupid posts down to a minimum - which may involve you not posting ever again, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

I'm not even going to touch the rest of your post. You are so obviously a wacked out moonbat that to do so would lower myself to your level. Suffice to say though, that America is infintely more free and tolerant a nation than Iran, and a much less danger.

I'm guessing the mods will have something to say about this post as well, but at the moment I don't care that much. Smacking down idiots is one of life's greater pleasures, and it's worth the occasional punishment.


Not at all. First, the whole reason they don't have a nuke yet is they don't have enough enriched uranium to make a bomb, so they don't have critical mass yet. Airstrikes on Iran's nuclear facilities would not set off a nuclear explosion.

This, being likened to a Roman forum, would benefit the most without your flames.

America being a free and tolerant nation? Fat chance. America has an extensive record of denying rights based on race. America has an extensive record of hate crimes committed by the ignorant masses. Iran does not even stand in comparison.

Before you mindlessly propagate your right-wing America-as-a-savior bias, consider the facts. And do not insult the intelligence of people knowing that your own is at stake.

 

[boarder]

I voted let them have one, it would be crazy for them not to they just need to look at north korea to see how they are treated.
It'll keep america out of there and thats what they want to do most of all.
Would they use one, i doubt it, they have way to much to lose if they did. They know there country probably wouldnt exist if they nuked say israel, and unless the person with his finger on the button is mentally insane it won'y happen but will act as a huge deterant to america and israel.
And the same with giving one to a terrorist, surely they wouldnt be that stupid unless massively provoked.

 

[Xshayathiya]

Untrue again,i have a few Iranians that runs a drive-thru[where u can get some beverages and snacks by driving thru in your car]and told me from thier impression from what they were growing up that the majority[the poor] feels superior than their eastern,western neighbors.

Is it possible that your viewpoint is bias of not seeing the 'whole' aspect of Iranian society?And yes,propoganda is laced not only in the media,but also text-book ridden materials as well

No offense, I think I would have a better viewpoint of Iranian society than you. We take pride in our cultural and scientific achievements, but we do not believe we are superior to anyone. If those people's impression was that the poor considered themselves superior is a wrong impression.

EDIT: also, you were saying that the school's curiculum teaches that idea. What is taught in school does not vary between the rich nor the poor. And people's impressions is different than school curiculum. I do believe you've changed your argument.

 

[Elrohir]

Do realize I wasn't saying Iran was a moral state. I wasn't saying Iran was the pinnacle of religious freedom. Heck, I dislike Iran just about as much as you. The point I'm making is that NO nation should or can be trusted with nuclear weapons, and we'd be much better off without them altogether.

However, I also don't think that we should actively prevent Iran from gaining nuclear technology; why? Because it makes the world a safer place. Yes, that seems like an inherent contradiction, but I would beg to differ. We were much safer during the Cold War than we are now.

That's naive though. Nculear weapons are here to stay, whether we like it or not. And even if you could get a global treaty banning all nuclear weapons, I really do not think it would help, because many nations, such as the US or Russia, still have the capability and knowledge to manufacture more nukes, and would do so if we felt the need. As long as that knowledge exists, banning nukes is pointless.

Despite our fears of getting blown up, no one but a completely insane ruler would inflict MAD on the world, and even in totalitarian states, there is the fact that it is filled with people just like you and me. Iranians and North Koreans are not robots. They have families, homes, children just like we do. And rest assured, they do NOT want them to die in nuclear destruction.

So tell me, what's it called when the Head of State of a nation calls for the total genocide of a neighboring nation, and denies that a widely acknowledged atrocity has occured. Is that "sane" in your book? Because it's rather wacked out in mine.

I hope you'll take the time to read this post, instead of just taking snippets out of them and bashing it; either take the thing as a whole or put me on your ignore list, but don't take one sentence out of a paragraph and then bash that; it's something we've seen far too often and leads only to flame wars.

I never take solitary sentences out of paragraphs, but I do delete certain paragraphs when quoting a post, to save space and to keep the conversation focused.

This, being likened to a Roman forum, would benefit the most without your flames.

Granted, and I don't usually flame like that, but it's therapuetic to smack people down occasionally. This is why there are moderators. They either didn't see my post or decided to let it slide, either way I'm not complaining.

America being a free and tolerant nation? Fat chance. America has an extensive record of denying rights based on race. America has an extensive record of hate crimes committed by the ignorant masses. Iran does not even stand in comparison.

Yeah, like that whole "slavery thing". Except that was what, 140 years ago, and we cared enough to end that that we sacrificed hundreds of thousands of young men to make sure it ended. Did you know that it's illegal to discriminate or deny rights based on race in the US? Really, it is, we're not all the bigots you seem to think we are.

Are you seriously suggesting that Iran is a more tolerant nation than the US? The Iran that beheads homosexuals just because their gay? The Iran that executes ******** women for adultery because she was forced into prostitution? THAT Iran is a more tolerant and less hateful nation than the US? I would laugh because that's such an absurd comparison, but it's actually a sad thing that someone could actually believe that.

 

[Whomp]

America being a free and tolerant nation? Fat chance. America has an extensive record of denying rights based on race.

Extensive record? Please explain and compared to what alleged perfect nation?

What I do know is 150,000 Iranian professionals leave the country each year, one of the highest rates of "brain drain" in the Middle East. I don’t think the U.S. has ever had this type of exodus.

America has an extensive record of hate crimes committed by the ignorant masses. Iran does not even stand in comparison.

Extensive again? Can you please site some examples please?
How about I start with Iran’s record for comparision…

July 1999, Mr Khatami stands by the hardliners, backed by the Supreme Leader and the conservative institutions of state, and crushed the student protests using overwhelming force.
Women? Pfft.
In November Iran’s executed two men for homosexual conduct.
During Minister of Interior Mustafa Pour-Mohammadi’s tenure as top deputy of the Ministry of Information from 1987 to 1999, agents of the ministry systematically engaged in extrajudicial killings of opposition figures, political activists, and intellectuals.
Gholamhussein Mohseni Ezhei, the new Minister of Information, served as prosecutor general of the Special Court for the Clergy and in this position spearheaded the prosecution of prominent reformist clerics. He has also been a key figure in suppressing press freedoms, resulting in the closure of more than 100 newspapers since 2000. Several journalists and activists have alleged that Mohseni Ezhei ordered the kidnap and killing of Pirouz Davani, a dissident and political activist, in 1998.

Want me to go on?

I voted let them have one, it would be crazy for them not to they just need to look at north korea to see how they are treated.
It'll keep america out of there and thats what they want to do most of all.
Would they use one, i doubt it, they have way to much to lose if they did. They know there country probably wouldnt exist if they nuked say israel, and unless the person with his finger on the button is mentally insane it won'y happen but will act as a huge deterant to america and israel.

North Korea is not surrounded by hotbed of hostility like Iran is in the Middle East. My assumption is likely Iran would share this technology and it would have dire implications in the region.

And the same with giving one to a terrorist, surely they wouldnt be that stupid unless massively provoked.

Are you joking?

 

[Japanrocks12]

Extensive record? Please explain and compared to what alleged perfect nation?

What I do know is 150,000 Iranian professionals leave the country each year, one of the highest rates of "brain drain" in the Middle East. I don’t think the U.S. has ever had this type of exodus.
Extensive again? Can you please site some examples please?
How about I start with Iran’s record for comparision…

July 1999, Mr Khatami stands by the hardliners, backed by the Supreme Leader and the conservative institutions of state, and crushed the student protests using overwhelming force.
Women? Pfft.
In November Iran’s executed two men for homosexual conduct.
During Minister of Interior Mustafa Pour-Mohammadi’s tenure as top deputy of the Ministry of Information from 1987 to 1999, agents of the ministry systematically engaged in extrajudicial killings of opposition figures, political activists, and intellectuals.
Gholamhussein Mohseni Ezhei, the new Minister of Information, served as prosecutor general of the Special Court for the Clergy and in this position spearheaded the prosecution of prominent reformist clerics. He has also been a key figure in suppressing press freedoms, resulting in the closure of more than 100 newspapers since 2000. Several journalists and activists have alleged that Mohseni Ezhei ordered the kidnap and killing of Pirouz Davani, a dissident and political activist, in 1998.

Want me to go on?

North Korea is not surrounded by hotbed of hostility like Iran is in the Middle East. My assumption is likely Iran would share this technology and it would have dire implications in the region.
Are you joking?

Are you saying that you cannot identify hate crimes in America? That you cannot see the apathy in the face of the government in response to these crimes? What about the civil rights movement? When demonstrators were inhumanly treated by civilians and law enforcement officials alike, and the government showed complete apathy towards their cause for years?

 

[Japanrocks12]

That's naive though. Nculear weapons are here to stay, whether we like it or not. And even if you could get a global treaty banning all nuclear weapons, I really do not think it would help, because many nations, such as the US or Russia, still have the capability and knowledge to manufacture more nukes, and would do so if we felt the need. As long as that knowledge exists, banning nukes is pointless.


So tell me, what's it called when the Head of State of a nation calls for the total genocide of a neighboring nation, and denies that a widely acknowledged atrocity has occured. Is that "sane" in your book? Because it's rather wacked out in mine.


I never take solitary sentences out of paragraphs, but I do delete certain paragraphs when quoting a post, to save space and to keep the conversation focused.


Granted, and I don't usually flame like that, but it's therapuetic to smack people down occasionally. This is why there are moderators. They either didn't see my post or decided to let it slide, either way I'm not complaining.


Yeah, like that whole "slavery thing". Except that was what, 140 years ago, and we cared enough to end that that we sacrificed hundreds of thousands of young men to make sure it ended. Did you know that it's illegal to discriminate or deny rights based on race in the US? Really, it is, we're not all the bigots you seem to think we are.

Are you seriously suggesting that Iran is a more tolerant nation than the US? The Iran that beheads homosexuals just because their gay? The Iran that executes ******** women for adultery because she was forced into prostitution? THAT Iran is a more tolerant and less hateful nation than the US? I would laugh because that's such an absurd comparison, but it's actually a sad thing that someone could actually believe that.

What about executing civilians for being Russian spies based on inexistant evidence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenbergs

What about making several thousand people lose their jobs because of ideology?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy

 

[Bugfatty300]

Are you saying that you cannot identify hate crimes in America? That you cannot see the apathy in the face of the government in response to these crimes? What about the civil rights movement? When demonstrators were inhumanly treated by civilians and law enforcement officials alike, and the government showed complete apathy towards their cause for years?

Why do you deny that worse things happened and are happening in Iran?

4,000 people executed for being gay since the 1980?....120,000 political execution since 1980? I mean come on your assertion that Iran is more tolerant than the US is laughable.

 

[Whomp]

Are you saying that you cannot identify hate crimes in America? That you cannot see the apathy in the face of the government in response to these crimes? What about the civil rights movement? When demonstrators were inhumanly treated by civilians and law enforcement officials alike, and the government showed complete apathy towards their cause for years?

The Civil rights demonstrations 37 years ago? OK you got me there and to think I was only living 6 blocks away from the riots in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago.

Can you come up with anything more recent?

 

[Japanrocks12]

I'm not saying that Iran is more tolerant than the United States. I merely said that the Iranian record is very recent in comparison the United States, where such intolerance has continued for well over a century. This is what I meant as "extensive".

 

[Winner]

Why do you deny that worse things happened and are happening in Iran?

4,000 people executed for being gay since the 1980?....120,000 political execution since 1980? I mean come on your assertion that Iran is more tolerant than the US is laughable.

What about China? No complaints there?

OK, I know what are you trying to say, but I think it is pretty irrelevant. The fact is that Iran is the most democratic country in the Middle East (except of Israel). It is just a non-liberal democracy.
The fact is that most of young people in Iran are not in favour of war with West or further islamisation of society.
The fact also is, that common Iranians are as patriotic as Americans, so they stick to their government when they feel threatened.

 

[Whomp]

I'm not saying that Iran is more tolerant than the United States. I merely said that the Iranian record is very recent in comparison the United States, where such intolerance has continued for well over a century. This is what I meant as "extensive".

Intolerance has happened for more than a century here and all over the world. It's hardly a U.S. centric issue.

However I don't recall these being a problem in the U.S. or most any other democratic country today.

Today's Iran a democracy? That's a joke.....
A government that restricts citizens' right to change their government. Manipulates the electoral system and represses political dissidents. Systematic abuses include extrajudicial killings and summary executions; disappearances; widespread use of torture and other degrading treatment; harsh prison conditions; arbitrary arrest and detention; lack of due process; unfair trials; and restrictions on freedom of speech, press, assembly, association, religion, and movement. Religious minorities, in particular Baha'is, have come under increasing repression by conservative elements of the judiciary and security establishment. The Government restricts the work of human rights groups. Women, gays and mentally challenged people face legal and social discrimination.


And these guys are getting a bomb?....:shakehead

 

[Bugfatty300]

I'm not saying that Iran is more tolerant than the United States. I merely said that the Iranian record is very recent in comparison the United States, where such intolerance has continued for well over a century. This is what I meant as "extensive".

Huh? Iran (Persia) has existed for thousands of years. How tolerant was Iran in 1776? How tolerant was Iran in 1107? You have no way of knowing what you're talking about.

The fact is that Iran is the most democratic country in the Middle East (except of Israel). It is just a non-liberal democracy.

And except for Turkey.

So is executions for homosexuality and adultery simply being "non-liberal?" Heck I think of America as being just non-liberal. This is more than just not being liberal. Its extreme fundamentalism that infests the courts and government of Iran.

Iran may be democratic on a national level but in the courts its a whole other story.

The fact is that most of young people in Iran are not in favour of war with West or further islamisation of society.

I don't doubt that. But young people of Iran aren't the ones in a position of power. They may be in the next few decades, or maybe such differences in ideology will result in another civil war or strife.

 

[Winner]

And except for Turkey.

I don't consider Turkey as a part of Middle East.

So is executions for homosexuality and adultery simply being "non-liberal?" Heck I think of America as being just non-liberal. This is more than just not being liberal. Its extreme fundimentalism that infests the courts and government of Iran.

We're talking about form of government. There is a huge difference between democracy and liberal democracy. The latter protects individual rights and freedoms. Iran is a democracy, because people can vote in fairly free elections (in Middle Eastern standards), but their rights are not protected and they don't have as much of individual freedoms.

Iran may be democratic on a national level but in the courts its a whole other story.

See above.

I don't doubt that. But remember that 1979 revolution supposedly had those same ideals. And also young people of Iran aren't the ones in a position of power. They may be in the next few decades, or maybe such differences in ideology will result in another civil war or strife.

Yes and it's their problem. Western meddling into their affairs or worse, Western military action against them, would cause huge damage to the Western credibility.

 

[Esckey]

The only proof I need that they are going to use it to make nukes is them being totally unwilling to let inspectors in and see it all. What are they afraid of? We're going to steal their nuclear secrets? THey're obviously trying to hide something

 

[Winner]

The only proof I need that they are going to use it to make nukes is them being totally unwilling to let inspectors in and see it all. What are they afraid of? We're going to steal their nuclear secrets? THey're obviously trying to hide something

You're totally wrong. Until now, they've let the inspectors to perform unannounced checks of their nuclear installations. IAEA has been satisfied, they found nothing.

The only thing the West has in hand is the simple fact they refuse to buy enriched uranium from Russia and rather want to enrich it themselves. Once they have this capability, nothing but military action can hinder them from getting a-bomb.

But again, there is no direct evidence, that Iran really wants to develop nuclear weapons.

 

[logical_psycho]

Iran is an islamic theocracy, they see everyone who is not islamic as the devil... since they are referring to me as a devil, I would not like them to have a nuke.


I hope Israel will give them the same treatment they did when saddam was trying to build a nuclear facility.

 

[Winner]

Ach bože, tebe omlouvá jen to, že nejsi

 

[nonconformist]

I might just throw in to this conversation, for context, that Iran's current state is a result of US foreign policy.