Is America doomed as a nation?

[Winner]

This isn't some bombastic statement or America bashing, so those of you who expected a flamewar against the evil America-haters can now calm down.

So, what I mean by the thread title? Well, it's a bit complicated, but I'll try to explain it:

America is a political nation. Bonds between the US citizens are not cultural, ethnic or religious. Americans are not a nation in the European sense. European nations are formed by long history, same language, usually same religion, culture, values, tradition and ethnicity. It's a bit exclusive form of nationalism, but it tends to be very strong and it holds people together. In Europe, you don't have to believe in constitution or wave the flag to be a national. You know you're part of your nation simply because you speak the same language, have the same values, live according the traditions and customs and look like other people in terms of race, though it may sound strange (there are exceptions from this rule, especially the former colonial powers are more "tolerant" in this matter). Americans can feel they're Americans only if they have the citizenship.

I want to know, what's your opinion on that, especially in terms of future development. Is the purely political understanding of nation a danger for the US? Is the force, which is holding America together, weakening? For many people coming to America, the culture is much more important than some abstract sense of unity based on political system created by people belonging to another culture. Will USA survive without having strong cultural ties between its citizens?

 

[Riesstiu IV]

I’m not going to pretend I can expertly predict the future of America but I’ll give it a shot. I think that if anything would doom America, it is our tremendous national debt and dependency on oil in a world that is running out of cheap oil.

I must however question your concept of modern European nationalism. It seems that many European nations have more than one ethnicity, language, and culture as a result of old immigration and recent. You say “Americans can feel they're Americans only if they have the citizenship.” Frankly this is bogus. Americans do share a common language, culture. I may not be part of the majority ethnicity but I clearly identify with people my own age group. I play games, watch the same TV programs, speak the same language, and generally have the same concerns as they do. There is very little diversity in culture. I lived in Texas and even though many Mexican immigrants don't speak English, the children do and usually adopt the same materialistic and financial goals of every other American.

American cultural is not deeply rooted in the past, and instead is more of a modern “media culture.” TV shows, video games, music, and movies are pretty much the highest forms of culture whether for better or worse. This culture is widespread and not any different from state to state.

 

[FredLC]

I think thta the US hhave created a pretty solid national identity with it's "love the flag" status - and actually, one able to easy the tensions that a purely religious, or ethinic, background can create.

Look at Brazil - we are about as multi-cultured as the US, we are almost as large and populated (and without the benefits of easy air and road transportation to unite people - believe me, air traveling is WAY to expensive, and the roads are like sweeden cheese for the amount of holes they have). We never actually had a say in what would our frontiers be, - portugal and spamish pretty much gave us a closed package - and still, the whole country unites for something as simple as seeing our national football team in the world cup every four years.

In other words, what it seen to lack in your reasoning is why should a politival identity be considered less binding than historical out ethinic ones.

Hence, I shall reply negatively to your inquiry.

Regards .

 

[Dreadnought]

The foreign aliens coming over will ruin the nation....

Soon the US will be a third world country, thanks to them (about 30 years)

 

[Steph]

I must however question your concept of modern European nationalism

So do I... Winner has some very personnal views.

 

[bathsheba666]

The foreign aliens coming over will ruin the nation....

Interesting post from a nation of foreign aliens...

 

[Atlas14]

Our downfall might be reliance on oil, water wars (scarcity of water in many countries including ours, so fights over rights to water resources), or a coup d'etat by some radical political party These seem most probable to me. But I don't see us being "doomed" in the near future, or even during my lifetime

 

[Inqvisitor]

America is polarized along many lines religious, political, and racial; the corrupt tyrannical politicians in charge are the source of many of them.

Yes, America is doomed to splinter as a nation.

Look at Brazil

Patrick Buchanan said America is being transformed into "a nation unrecognizable to our parents, a giant Brazil of the North."

Unlike most Central and South American countries, the USA was until very recently quite homogeneous in beliefs, language, origins, and ideals.

 

[Lotus49]

Is America doomed as a nation?

Only in your (wet) dreams.

 

[DAv2003]

America will fall, all Empires have fallen and America shall be no different. And when it does, it will make Rome look like a walk in the park.

 

[luiz]

Patrick Buchanan said America is being transformed into "a nation unrecognizable to our parents, a giant Brazil of the North."

And Brazil never split, nor will.

Unlike most Central and South American countries, the USA was until very recently quite homogeneous in beliefs, language, origins, and ideals.

It most certainly was not.
Look at the USA in the year 1900. In terms of ethnic origins, there were large ammounts of germans, englishmen, irishmen, poles, italians, chinese, blacks and others. In terms of religion, there was a substancial divide between catholics and protestants, just like today.

If you want to find a relatively homogeneous USA you have to go back to before the 19th Century.

 

[Lotus49]

America will fall, all Empires have fallen and America shall be no different. And when it does, it will make Rome look like a walk in the park.

Last I checked, Rome was still there. Capital city of Italia, I feel pretty certain.

 

[bhsup]

America will fall, all Empires have fallen and America shall be no different. And when it does, it will make Rome look like a walk in the park.

We're not an empire.

 

[DAv2003]

Last I checked, Rome was still there. Capital city of Italia, I feel pretty certain.

The Roman Empire. I meant that.

We're not an empire.

Taking over foreign lands, practicing dominance over your neighbours, starting wars over resources. Seems pretty Imperial to me.

 

[Azkonus]

America is a political nation. Bonds between the US citizens are not cultural, ethnic or religious. Americans are not a nation in the European sense.

This is what makes US strong.

European nations are formed by long history, same language, usually same religion, culture, values, tradition and ethnicity. It's a bit exclusive form of nationalism, but it tends to be very strong and it holds people together. In Europe, you don't have to believe in constitution or wave the flag to be a national. You know you're part of your nation simply because you speak the same language, have the same values, live according the traditions and customs and look like other people in terms of race, though it may sound strange (there are exceptions from this rule, especially the former colonial powers are more "tolerant" in this matter). Americans can feel they're Americans only if they have the citizenship.

What will hold a country together is the strong economy, and for strong economy you need high technology, for high technology you need smart people working for your economy, for this you have to give something to those smart guys to come to your country (beautiful life, girls..etc)

US is much more welcoming to smart people than European nations. People who have dreams to achieve something big go to US. Why do you think is that?

Answer

-US presents much more opportunities to those people. Above all they do achieve something US will never look them as foreigners.

-Though in Europe, same guy will seen as a foreigner eventhough he contributed so much to Germany or France than a regular french or german. Not only he but his family and maybe his grandchildren will be under prejudices and they feel uncomfortable.


In America nobody cares about making Americans better. They just push better further, and don't touch the falling ones.

However, you winner you how to make every chech more smarter more polite more everything because this is how europe thinks, everyone should be educated well, but in reality everyone educated so so. This is why MIT, Berkley... etc are so much better than I don't know what uni's you have got?

Bottom line, US will continue to dominate the world for at least 50 years or so (in our life time I mean), however it is the European "Union" which is doomed since they still much more separated than States Union (United States)*

*If you ask a french teenager which college she wants to go, she would probably answer Sorbonne, not Munich Polytechnick. Where she dreams to live and whom she wants to marry all French answers. Though Someone from California wants to go to a college in Boston, wants to live her life in New York and dreams to marry her asian boyfriend in Seattle.

 

[Speedo]

What will hold a country together is the strong economy, and for strong economy you need high technology, for high technology you need smart people working for your economy, for this you have to give something to those smart guys to come to your country (beautiful life, girls..etc)

That's exactly why the US is in danger. We're running critically short of "smart people" - just look at the number of engineers we graduate compared to China or India. Education is falling into the shitter, and the Bush administration sits there with the attitude of "we're rich and we'll always be rich."

 

[Odin2006]

It's not just the US, it's all of Western Civilization. I was thinking about this last night when I was listening a segment on public radio about the France labor riots, and I came to the realization that we are screwed no matter what we do in regards to globalization and the rise of Chna and India because both trade liberalization and protectionism will screw the West, but in different ways. China and India are acting like vampires, sucking the economic lifeblood out of the West. Trade liberalization just makes being vampirized more easy, forcinf western countries to demolish the European social experiment in a race-to-the-bottom in order to compete with China and India, whose middle clas have gotten the same supercharged work ethic that the West had 200 years ago. Protectionism will constrict the economy and cause unemployment as jobs are moved over to China and India in order to maximise profits. We are damned with we do, damned if we don't.

 

[luiz]

Another way to look at the issue is that the american sense of nationality is actually more stable than the one Winner describes.

If you base you national identity on things like ethnicity and religion, when those change your nation is in danger. And they always change eventually, the movement of people cannot be stopped. OTOH, if your national identity is based on a political culture independent of ethinicity or religion, than your nation will far more able to deal with changing demographics. Maybe this is the explanation for the success of the US as an united nation.

 

[Dreadnought]

Taking over foreign lands, practicing dominance over your neighbours, starting wars over resources. Seems pretty Imperial to me.

Then most nations of the world are 'empires'.

 

[Fox Mccloud]

The foreign aliens coming over will ruin the nation....

Soon the US will be a third world country, thanks to them (about 30 years)

You are going to have to define "3rd world."