Is barbarian clans mode absolutely broken?

[kb27787]

Sub t50 (standard speed, deity) crossbowman.... it also makes no sense you get these units at a discount price than buying in your cities.

 

[Buktu]

Since barbs somehow scale with civs progression you should not get any super advanced units its more like the worlds average units.
And even with the discount they are quite expensive. With your gpt you can buy one crossbow like every 10 turns. You an also just build archers in a few turns and upgrade them for 250 gold as soon as you get the tech (125 if you use the upgrade card).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Besides that, it makes sense they want to incentivize you interacting with the mode.

(As an aside, it's interesting to me how the term "broken" has evolved over the years.)

 

[Virdrago]

If Babylon is in the game, the barbs level up more quickly. That could be what's happening here. You may even be able to get men-at-arms in the classical age, if you can afford it.

 

[kb27787]

Since barbs somehow scale with civs progression you should not get any super advanced units its more like the worlds average units.
And even with the discount they are quite expensive. With your gpt you can buy one crossbow like every 10 turns. You an also just build archers in a few turns and upgrade them for 250 gold as soon as you get the tech (125 if you use the upgrade card).

I got DOW'd a dozen turns after this and all Hungary had was archers (and yes, that lone crossbow melts everything at the turn number)... actually from looking on the map I don't see a single civ with a crossbow.... and no, Babylon turned out not to be in the game.
I would rather say if even ONE civ reaches crossbows, the barbs will have it. And they spawn multiples of such units such that it is so common to see city states spawn smack dab in the middle of the map.

 

[Linklite]

Since barbs somehow scale with civs progression you should not get any super advanced units its more like the worlds average units.

From my observations, this isn't accurate, at least not in my games lately. I was the science leader of the world in terms of per turn science and my units were far more advanced than anything anyone else was fielding. Still, the Barbs in my last few games have been ahead of me, and not just by a little. I never saw them with warriors or swordsmen, the first I saw them with was MaAs. That could be due to tech selection, if everyone else beelined MaAs, then yeah OK. But there was a long period where I had to avoid central Russia (I was playing Earth TSL) because there was a camp with musketeers, and the best I had was MaAs who would get slaughtered by the musketeers. It wasn't a short period either, it was quite a while that this went on for before I decided to beeline musketeers to deal with them. I think Barbs and I got LI and infantry at the same time, it wasn't until after then that I pulled ahead and and got MI. Meanwhile, the most advanced unit I saw the AI field were musketeers.

I've heard that Barbs get techs that 50% of civs have researched - so if 3 of 5 civs have researched swordsmen, Barbs can have swordsmen, but that doesn't seem to match what I see. Both science per turn and the tech tree indicate that I'm leaving the AI in the dust, but Barbs have units almost (or actually) on a par with my own, or even more advanced.

I'm really not sure what's going on. They've also seemingly increased their unit spawn. I had to send a giant army to Norway vecuae the Barbs had amassed a massive army, around 10 units or so. My vampire had a field day though.

 

[Pfeffersack]

No. On the contrary...it is for my taste - together with Tech Shuffle - the best working mode. I concede that it would be even better with some balancing tweaks (e.g. less fast passive development of clans into CSs), but those are easily curable by a mod. Just compare that the with the AI's trouble with C&M - if something deserves the label "broken", then this.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yeah barbs is must play for me.

 

[aieeegrunt]

They seemed to have fixed most of the bugs that made this mode a joke on release

Except for the Polar Ice Cap City states

 

[Kotofei]

I'm really not sure what's going on. They've also seemingly increased their unit spawn. I had to send a giant army to Norway vecuae the Barbs had amassed a massive army, around 10 units or so. My vampire had a field day though.

I gotta read the patch notes more closely. Barbs coming out of the tundra seem absolutely overwhelming now. I've seen them swamp a Deity AI, twice.

 

[aieeegrunt]

I think this is more of an AI not building a military thing

I recently had a game where a very inconvenient city state had to go. My neighbours were France, Rome and Macedon.

Rome and Macedon did the emergency targeted at me.

It was I believe Medieval Era; I was Sparta and was transitioning my army from Hoplite/Archer to Pikeman/Man at Arms/Crossbow

Rome came at me with a single slinger

Macedon, ze goggles did nothing

I ended up invading Macedon and wrecking them

A big part of that was I had another city state I was suze of, Cardiff, and I swear their army was bigger than mine and Macedon combined somehow.

The AI in this game is a mess

 

[Pietato]

Since barbs somehow scale with civs progression you should not get any super advanced units its more like the worlds average units.
And even with the discount they are quite expensive. With your gpt you can buy one crossbow like every 10 turns. You an also just build archers in a few turns and upgrade them for 250 gold as soon as you get the tech (125 if you use the upgrade card).

This is incorrect. Barb clans have units FAR above civ progression. Line Infantry will show up when civs have barely discovered Man-at-arms, and Infantry/AT will show up in the late Renaissance.

 

[Linklite]

This is incorrect. Barb clans have units FAR above civ progression. Line Infantry will show up when civs have barely discovered Man-at-arms, and Infantry/AT will show up in the late Renaissance.

Do we know how the game calculates what units Barbs should have?

 

[aieeegrunt]

Do we know how the game calculates what units Barbs should have?

Is it a straight era thing?

 

[Linklite]

Is it a straight era thing?

Don't know, often the Barbs are behind me (apart from ATs, they've always gotten those ahead of me), recently they have been ahead, despite me pretty much always being an era or two ahead of the world (apart from at the beginning, which is generally when Barbs don't get ahead of me, complicating things). If it is done by world era, it's doesn't seem to be a simple "unit from appropriate to the current era".

It's hard to to tell because the units seem to persevere, so if a unit is an old one, is it because that's the era that the Barbs are adhering to? Or is it just a unit they spawned 100 turns ago and I've just come across them?

 

[Disgustipated]

I don't like the city state spam. I won't use this mode for that reason. I often lower the number of city states in my games because I don't like too many.

Although I may use this mode one more time for my "final game" of civ6 where I have all the modes activated at once.

 

[aieeegrunt]

I don't like the city state spam. I won't use this mode for that reason. I often lower the number of city states in my games because I don't like too many.

Although I may use this mode one more time for my "final game" of civ6 where I have all the modes activated at once.

I’d like it more if there was no “passive” progression, like if it only progressed via interaction

 

[Pietato]

Do we know how the game calculates what units Barbs should have?

Nope. Might have something to do with camps being dispersed or raided.

 

[Stilgar08]

Since you are talking about deity here: Nope, not broken.

 

[Linklite]

Nope. Might have something to do with camps being dispersed or raided.

A very good point. Zombies has a similar mentality, and in the games where Barbs became advanced, I was going nuts clearing camps. I was marching all over the place playing whack-a-mole with them.