Is God using Trump to further His plan?

Angst said:
why talk with anyone ever
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I get your point, but I am specifically talking about the fervently religious. You aren't going to change their minds. At least, not here. It's going to take some life-armageddon tragedy to shake them out of it. I just don't get the point of debating people whose whole argument boils down to: My Faith says so

It's somethng I've done, an argument I've had (many times) so I'm not disparaging anyone who continues to do so. Just saying that if their answer to your every question is: "'cause God says so" you will never make any headway. Not saying stop, just saying you will get frustrated & won't change their view.
Lexicus said:
No, obviously not. But my point is these people aren't exactly harmless, they vote for your Donald Trumps and your Matt Gaetzes.
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That is fair, but see my above reply. These people are lost causes IMO. I don't want to imply you shouldn't tilt at these windmills (that sounds disparaging, but couldn't think of a better way to express it), but they aren't going to "come to no-Jesus" based on forum posts. I just live & let live with people like that. These are not the people you should spend time trying to persuade. FWIW. Probably should've led with that.
 
Lexicus said:
My audience is the lurkers! The lurkers!!!!!1111eleven
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That's not as invalid as you make it seem. This thread has 8,000 views, & 440 replies. Speaking for myself, I View a lot more threads than I Comment on. TimsUpToNuthin (PBUH) used to preach this.
 
All are hereies but the truth: cats

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I would like to protest that I am listed as the starter of this thread. I am not.

I have a toothache.

We lost our precious Siamese about a month ago. I put her out and she never came back. I loved that cat.

My wife's surgery has been postponed. If there are God believers here, I'd appreciate prayers.
 
Core Imposter said:
I would like to protest that I am listed as the starter of this thread. I am not.

I have a toothache.

We lost our precious Siamese about a month ago. I put her out and she never came back. I loved that cat.

My wife's surgery has been postponed. If there are God believers here, I'd appreciate prayers.
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Best wishes for her surgery and condolences for your kitty. Go to the dentist for the toothache!
 
Or pray.

I had a toothache the other day. I prayed and it went away.

I didn't pray that it would go away. I just said my usual prayers. And the toothache went away.

Correlation is not proof of absence of causation.

(I actually suspect that the tooth in question is going to need dental attention)

RobAnybody said:
You aren't going to change their minds. At least, not here.
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But that might not be specific to religious posters. I think I've only once, on any topic whatsoever, seen an internet denizen change his mind based on internet argumentation.
 
Core Imposter said:
I would like to protest that I am listed as the starter of this thread. I am not.
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An accident of fate or the hand of god? When I split the topic off from the Trump thread, your post was the starting point for the departure. God works in mysterious ways! ;)

I hope your wife's surgery goes well and your cat had an easy passing.
 
Gori the Grey said:
But that might not be specific to religious posters. I think I've only once, on any topic whatsoever, seen an internet denizen change his mind based on internet argumentation.
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Oh, I don't disagree, but to go back to the "muh audience is the lurkers" thing from above, you probably have changed some minds who never even commented on the thread in question. I've often found your arguments persuasive on threads I have not commented on or participated in. It's not a nothingburger argument that when you logically lay out the "opposing case" you are 1) probably not going to change the mind you are directly disagreeing with but also 2) you very well might change the mind of someone reading along who hasn't commented.

I suppose, upon reflection, this is actually a good counter-argument to my above "why bother arguing with 'My Faith Said So' people? they aren't going to change their minds" post. I retract that position in light of my own rebuttal. :) I still maintain that I find it tedious to do so.
 
RobAnybody said:
I retract that position in light of my own rebuttal.
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Well, and now I need to retract my own claim, as I've now observed two internet denizens change their mind as a result of internet argumentation!
 
Gori the Grey said:
Well, and now I need to retract my own claim, as I've now observed two internet denizens change their mind as a result of internet argumentation!
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Impossible…

…but is it possible to learn this power? 🤔
 
RobAnybody said:
More importantly... is it possible to teach this power to others?
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Provided there’s no stigma of being accused of being a flip-flopper when presented with new information.
 
GenMarshall said:
Provided there’s no stigma of being accused of being a flip-flopper when presented with new information.
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You'd actually have to demonstrably change your position based on this information in the first place, is the trick.

If that is done consistently, then anyone who responds with jabs or the like can be disregarded as people making jabs. However, using the hypothetical existence of such jabs for never changing your position is, in fact, entirely that person's choice. The jabs don't exist yet. There is no stigma, until the actual change in opinion takes place.
 
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