Is Iran coming in from the cold?

[Lord Baal]

caketastydelish is Iranian. His enmity towards the regime is personal.

 

[Tahuti]

The American sanctions on Iran certainly do have teeth in them, and I don't care what anyone says otherwise; the Iranian economy has suffered greatly as a result of our sanctions.

You don't think that enhances the powers of the mullahs rather than weaken them?

 

[caketastydelish]

Ah. So it's the big oil interests instead? The ones who had to leave Iran again as they did in the early 50s?

Wake up and smell the propaganda, "dude". This "regime" hasn't done anything that dozens of other countries don't also do on a regular basis, including our so-called friends. Saudi Arabia makes Iran look great by comparison, and so does Bahrain.

But the Iranian people actually want a secular government. The people in Saudi Arabia genuinely prefer Islamic theocracy. Personally I think any form of theocracy (especially their version) is pathetic at best, but if that's what the people want they are entitled to it.

The U.S. has already learned its lesson from the 1950's and won't make the same mistake again.

You don't think that enhances the powers of the mullahs rather than weaken them?

Correct because the Mullahs are the ones running the show, with the show being the Iranian government. If the government itself loses its core essentials needed to survive, by effect, so do they.

 

[Tahuti]

Correct because the Mullahs are the ones running the show, with the show being the Iranian government. If the government itself loses its core essentials needed to survive, by effect, so do they.

But they haven't been deprived of the core essential needed to survive, so the mullahcracy wins popularity.

 

[Lord Baal]

But the Iranian people actually want a secular government.

Citation needed.

The people in Saudi Arabia genuinely prefer Islamic theocracy.

The **** outta here. And citation needed.

Personally I think any form of theocracy (especially their version) is pathetic at best, but if that's what the people want they are entitled to it.

So nice of you to trust in democracy. Should we conduct a poll on whether the majority of Americans and Iranians desire negotiation?

The U.S. has already learned its lesson from the 1950's and won't make the same mistake again.

It bears repeating: the **** outta here. The US just fought several wars last decade based on regime change that ended badly for them.

Correct because the Mullahs are the ones running the show, with the show being the Iranian government. If the government itself loses its core essentials needed to survive, by effect, so do they.

I would be frankly astonished if you can find a single instance of a government falling due to economic sanctions. Even blockades don't cause governments to fall, unless other measures - i.e. war - are taken also. Your view of how governments change is fairly naive.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I heard on the news just now that Israel is demanding that Iran give up all enrichment and hand over Uranium to other countries to enrich for them.

That's thoroughly asinine in my opinion. Christ almighty, how far is Obama going to let Netanyahu push things before he puts him in his place. The nerve of that guy!

 

[Lord Baal]

I heard on the news just now that Israel is demanding that Iran give up all enrichment and hand over Uranium to other countries to enrich for them.

That's thoroughly asinine in my opinion. Christ almighty, how far is Obama going to let Netanyahu push things before he puts him in his place. The nerve of that guy!

Obama won't let Netanyahu push him around. The Senators and Congressmen who need the Jewish lobby's money to get re-elected, on the other hand....

 

[caketastydelish]

Everyone knows I'm not a fan of the Mullahs in the least but in addition to being an Iranian I'm an Iranian-American. That said we're wasting way too much tax dollars giving money to Israel or otherwise wasting resources for a tiny country with like a third the population of NYC alone.

I don't hate Israel with a fiery passion like many of the users here do, but I still think we need to stop kissing their butt. We are giving them money we don't even have and I honestly don't see why. Plus now this. It's absurd.

 

[Tahuti]

Everyone knows I'm not a fan of the Mullahs in the least but in addition to being an Iranian I'm an Iranian-American. That said we're wasting way too much tax dollars giving money to Israel or otherwise wasting resources for a tiny country with like a third the population of NYC alone.

I don't hate Israel with a fiery passion like many of the users here do, but I still think we need to stop kissing their butt. We are giving them money we don't even have and I honestly don't see why. Plus now this. It's absurd.

Problem is not necessarily Israel, but the American political lobby culture in general. Besides, the American monetary support for Israel is not only at the behest of Israel, but even more at the behest of American arms manufacturers like Raytheon who acknowledge Israel as an important customer. Israel has an interest to end the conflicts in Palestine: Arms manufacturers on the other hand...

 

[Formaldehyde]

I don't hate Israel with a fiery passion like many of the users here do, but I still think we need to stop kissing their butt. We are giving them money we don't even have and I honestly don't see why. Plus now this. It's absurd.

Perhaps you can point out even one.

From what you just stated it would seem that you agree with them.

 

[Lord Baal]

As usual, Forma, your post makes no sense. "One" what?

Besides, as already stated, caketastydelish's problems with the Iranian government are personal, as his family fled Iran because of the Islamic Revolution, as it is (incorrectly) called. It doesn't matter whether he and the Israeli government agree on a course of action as regards Iran, since the reasons for them doing so are different.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Obama won't let Netanyahu push him around. The Senators and Congressmen who need the Jewish lobby's money to get re-elected, on the other hand....

But he already is...wasn't Obama working on some sort of agreement with the Palestinians or something and then Netanyahu approved more settlement construction or something? My memory on it is really vague.

 

[caketastydelish]

Perhaps you can point out even one.

From what you just stated it would seem that you agree with them.

I do think our (american) government needs to stuff kissing Israel's butt. However this does not justify how overwhelmingly oppressive the current regime in Iran is... they're really two different issues.

America should not use military action against Iran for sure, however being friendly with this bullcrap regime shouldn't happen either.

 

[Lord Baal]

But he already is...wasn't Obama working on some sort of agreement with the Palestinians or something and then Netanyahu approved more settlement construction or something? My memory on it is really vague.

How is Netanyahu ignoring Obama the same as Netanyahu pushing Obama around? Isn't it more a case of Netanyahu not letting Obama push him around?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

He scuttled a potential deal IIRC by pushing forward with the settlements because he wasn't happy Obama was talking to the Palestinians. Like I said, could be totally misremembering.

He certainly isn't helping any reproachment efforts with his inflammatory rhetoric today.

 

[Formaldehyde]

As usual, Forma, your post makes no sense. "One" what?

It should be quite apparent that I am asking him to provide even one name of someone in this forum who hates "Israel with a fiery passion", much less "like many of the users here do".

America should not use military action against Iran for sure, however being friendly with this bullcrap regime shouldn't happen either.

Only the US is far from being friendly with Iran. If you remember the previous president declared them part of the "axis of evil" while using terrorists and others to try to topple their sovereign government. Many conservatives still think of them in those terms and wish to accomplish the same goals while being prodded on by Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Again, compared to many of our actual friends Iran isn't really all that bad.

 

[Berzerker]

one user here?

 

[caketastydelish]

Only the US is far from being friendly with Iran. If you remember the previous president declared them part of the "axis of evil"
.

This is one of their few redeeming qualities, and and bush's policy towards Iran is the thin line that protects him from me viewing him as the worst American president of all time.

Not sure much about Saudi Arabia but based on what I've seen the Saudi people seem to actually prefer Islamic theocracy.

As for Israel I don't approve of what they're doing (particularly, expanding their borders illegally) but the only way you could honestly think that's more important is if you simply think some human lives are of more value than others. Israel, the entire country is like roughly 7 million people. Yes even within Israel's own population they face criticism and no I don't approve of them expanding, but even all that population combined is nothing compared to Irans. We are (somewhat) friendly with China because we have to, not because we want to. We can afford to put the Iranian government in their rightful place, which is the dirt, so we should do it.

However even though I don't accept your comparison of the Israeli conflict to the apartheid of South Africa, I still think what they're doing is generally wrong and at the very least we're giving them way too much money... we shouldn't be giving them a penny and instead invest our money back home.

Again, compared to many of our so-called friends Iran isn't really all that bad.

MobBoss is light years ahead of Iran.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Not sure much about Saudi Arabia but based on what I've seen the Saudi people seem to actually prefer Islamic theocracy.

As apparently so do most Iranians. Lord Baal asked you to provide a source to the contrary and you have not yet done so.

And that still doesn't change the fact that both Saudi Arabia and Bahrain are far worse than Iran as far as human rights are concerned.

As for Israel I don't approve of what they're doing (particularly, expanding their borders illegally) but the only way you could honestly think that's more important is if you simply think some human lives are of more value than others. Israel, the entire country is like roughly 7 million people. Yes even within Israel's own population they face criticism and no I don't approve of them expanding, but even all that population combined is nothing compared to Irans. We are (somewhat) friendly with China because we have to, not because we want to. We can afford to put the Iranian government in their rightful place, which is the dirt, so we should do it.

I wasn't referring to Israel. But there are some who would argue that they too are a theocracy which engages in apartheid.

However even though I don't accept your comparison of the Israeli conflict to the apartheid of South Africa, I still think what they're doing is generally wrong and at the very least we're giving them way too much money... we shouldn't be giving them a penny and instead invest our money back home.

Only I didn't "compare" their own apartheid with South Africa's. Now did I? If you wish to disagree with many authorities in this matter, that is your own decision. But don't expect me to change my mind based on your misconceptions of my actual views.

 

[caketastydelish]

As apparently so do most Iranians. Lord Baal asked you to provide a source to the contrary and you have not yet done so.

Yeah, I haven't done much research on the matter, touché. However, though, Iranians (the ones I've come across, anyway) tend to be more secular (both in a political and religious sense) than most other Muslim countries.

Saudi Arabia is considered the 'laughing stock' of the Muslim world even within the Muslim world. Why is Saudi Arabia the one place that is considered to be literally 100% Muslim? They don't allow anything else, that's why.

And that still doesn't change the fact that both Saudi Arabia and Bahrain are far worse than Iran as far as human rights are concerned.

Iran is where we have the best chance of success though, at least that's what I think.

I wasn't referring to Israel. But there are some who would argue that they too are a theocracy which engages in apartheid.

k

Only I didn't "compare" their own apartheid with South Africa's. Now did I?

You have in the past.