Is it the end or the beginning?

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Nah, I'm pretty sure it's Lilith.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but is Lilith the same as Ishtar?

 

[Joij21]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but is Lilith the same as Ishtar?

To some yes, but to others she's a minor Mesopotamian spirit/demon that got co-opted by the writers of (I forget which apocryphal book Lilith is mentioned).

She's also likened to Ereshkigal (Innana/Ishtar's sister who rules over the underworld, analogous to the Egyptian goddess Isis, the Greek goddess Persephone, the Germanic/Norse goddess Hel). Then there's also Hecate which is associated with being synonymous with all of the above, the so called Queen of the Witches. The three sisters/witches which are associated with Hecate, the Indian goddess of death Kali, Athena is also kinda dark and nocturnal with her association with owls & war wisdom, then there's also a mesoamerican death goddess which is believed to be a predecessor myth to the modern folk saint Santa Muerte worshipped in Mexico often by cartel members. You also have Diana/Selene the goddess of the moon which has a sort of huntress/nocturnal association, and Artemis which is a more direct & explicit goddess of the hunt that is also associated with the night.

So as you can see female deities/spirits/demons/folk saints associated with death, war, fire, the cythonic, the deep, the hunt, or the night are quite common across various cultures worldwide.

 

[Joij21]

So anyways I believe Iran should block the straight because if they do and America has to fight them to keep oil prices low, America would be forced to pick and choose between keeping Ukraine afloat or dedicating it's already far too lean industry for another Mideastern war.

Should Biden choose Zelensky as more important to save then oil prices, Iran would be able to get away with it especially in an election year whereby they can use such a manuevere to emasculate the Dems with more price inflation/recession and get Trump & the Republicans elected. The chaos caused by an inbound and returning Trump administration would cause so much division and chaos the United States would be in no condition to commit to war/fight back.

This may be the only time for Iran to strike and humiliate and if they wait too long eventually America might be in a better position with a less divided generation/generations.

 

[EnglishEdward]

In my opinion the regime in Iran simply does not want a major war until it has nuclear weapons.

 

[Joij21]

To be honest I don't care if the West falls because it really has not rewarded me my entire life. I'm 27, unemployed, grew up poor never really improving since the last recession, not married, no kids.

Watching the nation I grew up in (which lets be honest is run by corporatist cartels) falter is karma for leaving me behind. And good riddance! Call me a traitor, but this is a treason so sweet!

And the rest of the West is hardly prosperous or free, also corporatist run. Unless you're connected there's no such thing as liberty.

 

[Narz]

To be honest I don't care if the West falls because it really has not rewarded me my entire life. I'm 27, unemployed, grew up poor never really improving since the last recession, not married, no kids.

Watching the nation I grew up in (which lets be honest is run by corporatist cartels) falter is karma for leaving me behind. And good riddance! Call me a traitor, but this is a treason so sweet!

And the rest of the West is hardly prosperous or free, also corporatist run. Unless you're connected there's no such thing as liberty.

You have the liberty and free time to complain.

No society can guarantee you a job or a wife.

 

[Verbose]

It's not obvious a major war in the Middle East involving Iran is in Russia's interest. If that soaks up US/western resources, it also ensures Iran will be quite busy and not in a position to support Russia. Instead Russia might need to support Iran, if it has the wherewithal.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2024/04/why-russia-doesnt-want-war-between-israel-and-iran.html

And a war like that in the Middle East, involving closing the Hormuz Strait will above all be a bit of a nightmare for China, which is the main buyer of the oil out of the region. So the Chinese might take a dim view of anyone upsetting the apple cart like that. So China might find itself in need of sorting out the region to ensure its own supply. While needing to support Russia in Ukraine. Bit of a conflict of priorities...

And as much as everyone knows the inns and outs of US and western resources and means, and are focused on how they are limited – it's not as if China has vastly more, and certainly neither Iran or Russia by comparison.

 

[Joij21]

You have the liberty and free time to complain.

No society can guarantee you a job or a wife.

You can complain in any other country.

Either way no society can guarantee loyalty either.

 

[Verbose]

You can complain in any other country.

Not with the same outcomes.

 

[Joij21]

Not with the same outcomes.

Honestly I believe far too many western people think everything outside of North America and Europe is nothing but a North Korean dystopia. As though every other nation is literally all these little North Koreas running around.

But if everything outside of the West is a dystopia, it makes you wonder why we haven't fixed that in over 70 years since winning WW2 ... Yeah really makes you think.

 

[Joij21]

Now if for instance I was Israel right now, today would be a perfect opportunity to bomb Iran's nuclear program back another decade. Because US Intel has indicated an Iran attack may be imminent, that alone could be used as a cassis belli by Israel to preemptively strike Iran now before an alleged preemptive strike by them.

And it would be a Machiavellian calculation because for Israel the worst thing that could happen is they wait and it turns out Iran is bluffing. Use the plausible deniability of American intelligence while it's still hot and you can at least trick boomers and gen xers in the west who largely support Israel and give it the benefit of doubt. Wait too long and that intel gets cold and even boomers won't be convinced that your "preemptive" bombing was actually preemptive.

So I say if Israel wants to really end/set back the Iranian nuclear program with the appearance of good intentions that at least could easily trick Joe Biden into believing so. Then I'd say they should start bombing Iran within the next 12-24 hours, then the intel starts getting too stale.

 

[EnglishEdward]

@ Joij21

Please remind me which country you are in?

 

[Joij21]

Well guys, guess we finally did it. We memed WW3 into existence!
Enjoy the show!​

 

[Kyriakos]

Well guys, guess we finally did it. We memed WW3 into existence!
Enjoy the show!​

I remember that danish show. I suppose @EvaDK does too ^^

 

[Joij21]

Yeah well Iran is finally firing ze missiles!

Guess it really is the end...

 

[Kyriakos]

As noted, the end of the beginning, by default, is the beginning of the end

 

[Joij21]

I thought the Greeks believed in a beginning, a middle, then the end.

 

[innonimatu]

Are we @ the sunset of an global empire, about to descend into a chaotic dark age, glass as full as it will be for a long, long time or perhaps forever or are we in the dark age now, approaching the beginning of a Renaissance beyond our wildest imagination, awaiting the discovery that the glass can hold 1,000x more water than we ever could imagine?

Who is this we you talk about, kemosabe?

Don't worry, the world has changed many times and this is just one more time of change. The end of history is not in sight. People should focus on taking care of their own affairs, those of their communities. Geo-strategic games, empires, that's usually for the benfit of the sociopaths in power. Whenever you can avoid playing (being played), don't play that game.

 

[Joij21]

Hell no! We won't go!

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

When the end comes, it will be fast and furious and unexpected.