Is the US Militarized?

[Paul in Saudi]

I am reading the biography of John Maynard Keynes that came out this week. I have learned to hate the man. Still, that does not mean he was wrong. (In fact he was rarely wrong, which is why I have grown to hate him.)

In any case, in the 1920s, he decried the militarism of Britain in that era. He was not talking about Imperialism. That seems to never have been a blip on his moral radar. He was concerned that the huge number of veterans from the Great War changed British society.

The purpose of reading history is to see the present and future more clearly. The question is, is the US a militaristic country?

My impression is yes. Look at our wars of conquest. But of course if we were a militaristic society, there would be more signs. I tried to make a little list, but found things that were just trivial.

The yellow ribbons everywhere
The national anthem at sporting events
"Thank you for your service" (I was paid, and I get a pension.)
American flags everywhere.

So having failed to convince myself, you tell me. Is America a militaristic society? Is this a recent development or an old part of national character?

 

[plarq]

To me US is more like a militia nation, which makes it far more dangerous than a militaristic nation.

 

[MobBoss]

I guess it really depends on how you define militaristic. Given your examples, the yellow ribbons, national anthem, and thank you for your service, and flags - well, I'm not sure that proves the point. Some of which simply because they were not prevalent during significant military events in our history not so long ago (the yellow ribbons, and thanks for service and flags). Those have only really occurred within the last decade to be honest.

 

[Berzerker]

yes, military equipment serving as hand-me-downs to the cops, no-knock warrants and a drug war all spell trouble

the 4th Amendment has been eviscerated

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Economically speaking I would say absolutely. The primary motor of our economy is the defense industry, and every effort to draw away from that since Keynes has been a disaster.

 

[Kozmos]

Well considering how the media reacts every time someone tries to steer away from Teddy Roosevelt way of doing things...then yes. US prefers trade, but will happily bomb what it can't buy. Which you can say started before the Great Wars in trampling down the small folk in it's own hemisphere. Vietnam is the curious highlight for me. It reminds me of the betrayal on the home front arguments, but nothing really changed in the end.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

Thank you all. I have to go to work now. I will check back in later.

 

[MobBoss]

yes, military equipment serving as hand-me-downs to the cops, no-knock warrants and a drug war all spell trouble

the 4th Amendment has been eviscerated

Well, fwiw, I think our police need to be equipped a bit better than boy scouts, but that's me.

I mean military equipment also means camo uniforms, Humvees, firearms, and other items that could still be easily gotten off the shelf. Often, the problem with military equipment is the look/perception of it rather than the actual functionality of the equipment at hand.

 

[Berzerker]

Well, fwiw, I think our police need to be equipped a bit better than boy scouts, but that's me.

I mean military equipment also means camo uniforms, Humvees, firearms, and other items that could still be easily gotten off the shelf. Often, the problem with military equipment is the look/perception of it rather than the actual functionality of the equipment at hand.

No more Andy Griffith I guess, that was before the drug war... Do the Brits still have unarmed cops roaming the streets? Well, they might carry a small club or maybe mace nowadays. Or did the war on terror replace their quaint system?

They need to stop violating the 4th Amendment. But the politicians and courts have decided its reasonable for cops to bomb or use tanks to plow into peoples homes and shoot dogs in the middle of the night looking for contraband. Well, reasonable when it happens to the little people.

 

[cav scout]

The U.S. is not militarized and the examples provided don't get anywhere close to showing that it is:

1. Yellow ribbon- a tradition at least 400 years old of putting up a symbol when a loved one is away from home. Traditional uses over the years have been for college students away at school and family members in prison. Current usage is an expression of appreciation for the sacrifices of families who have loved ones serving overseas.

2. National anthem- are the Olympics a militaristic thing? An anthem is an expression of national identity and is not necessarily militaristic.

3. Thank you for your service- an expression of appreciation for a service member's sacrifices on their behalf. Often prompted by a recognition of how shabbily and unfairly service members were treated during the Vietnam-era.

4. American flags everywhere- flags are everywhere in most countries. I do think that American flags starting popping up everywhere after 9/11 mostly because of fear.

5. Military equipment to cops- I agree that this is a problem but I understand the OP to mean militarism in the expansionist/interventionist sense versus the police-state sense.

6. Economy- military spending is 4.7 percent of GDP so not the primary motor of the economy.

To me US is more like a militia nation, which makes it far more dangerous than a militaristic nation.

This doesn't make sense to me. A militaristic nation is inherently expansionist and poses a much greater danger to the world than a militia nation which is inward-looking. Perhaps you are expressing a discomfort of power being diffused among the people instead of centralized with the state?

 

[Berzerker]

5. Military equipment to cops- I agree that this is a problem but I understand the OP to mean militarism in the expansionist/interventionist sense versus the police-state sense.

Nobody intervenes more, we're constantly in wars here and abroad. The war on drugs is a war on us. It creates a massive black market matched by a massive budget and army. Add the war on terror and uncle sam sees and hears all.

6. Economy- military spending is 4.7 percent of GDP so not the primary motor of the economy.

We spend more than everyone else combined

 

[MobBoss]

No more Andy Griffith I guess, that was before the drug war... Do the Brits still have unarmed cops roaming the streets? Well, they might carry a small club or maybe mace nowadays. Or did the war on terror replace their quaint system?

They need to stop violating the 4th Amendment. But the politicians and courts have decided its reasonable for cops to bomb or use tanks to plow into peoples homes and shoot dogs in the middle of the night looking for contraband. Well, reasonable when it happens to the little people.

Oh there are still Any Griffiths, but just like in the show, you have to go to Mayberry to find them. Not Baltimore.

And can you provide me a few instances where cops 'bombed or used tanks' to plow into peoples homes? I'm unaware of any, and am sure that any example would be decidedly unique.

And you don't need military equipment to shoot dogs in the middle of the night, so....

 

[cav scout]

Nobody intervenes more, we're constantly in wars here and abroad.

Our national power is so great that it's surprising that we haven't intervened more abroad.

The war on drugs is a war on us. It creates a massive black market matched by a massive budget and army. Add the war on terror and uncle sam sees and hears all.

Again, I think you are getting a bit off topic from what the OP is asking.

We spend more than everyone else combined

But that still doesn't mean that defense spending is the motor of our economy

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But that still doesn't mean that defense spending is the motor of our economy

Keynesianism requires injection of demand into the economy in the form of government spending. Defense spending is the biggest injector we have not only because the amount is so large. It is reliable, in that no matter how much we spend today there is no change in the demand for "the weapon of tomorrow" whereas you can only build so many roads and bridges to nowhere. It also injects much higher velocity money into the economy, as defense industries can vastly overprice their monopoly products, which leads to enormous salaries for relatively ordinary workers, which leads to large scale consumerism that feeds all other sectors of the economy.

If you can point out a comparably qualified candidate to replace defense spending without collapsing the economy please do, because a whole generation of economists has been searching for it more or less desperately.

 

[ParkCungHee]

To me US is more like a militia nation, which makes it far more dangerous than a militaristic nation.

The militia basis of America is thoroughly gutted. At this point, almost every nation on earth has a stronger militia tradition.

American militarism is scary because it's based on divorcing civil society from 'military service' as much as possible.

 

[cav scout]

Keynesianism requires injection of demand into the economy in the form of government spending. Defense spending is the biggest injector we have not only because the amount is so large. It is reliable, in that no matter how much we spend today there is no change in the demand for "the weapon of tomorrow" whereas you can only build so many roads and bridges to nowhere. It also injects much higher velocity money into the economy, as defense industries can vastly overprice their monopoly products, which leads to enormous salaries for relatively ordinary workers, which leads to large scale consumerism that feeds all other sectors of the economy.

If you can point out a comparably qualified candidate to replace defense spending without collapsing the economy please do, because a whole generation of economists has been searching for it more or less desperately.

Public-sector spending is equal to about 30% of GDP with about 1/6 of this is military spending while the remainder is other stuff. The idea of shifting some discretionary spending from military to non-military purposes isn't anything new, complicated or catastrophic.

 

[Thedrin]

The U.S. is not militarized and the examples provided don't get anywhere close to showing that it is:

4. American flags everywhere- flags are everywhere in most countries. I do think that American flags starting popping up everywhere after 9/11 mostly because of fear.

One of the things that struck me about the US on a recent visit to New York City was the massive numbers of visible US flags; far more than in any other country I've been to.

That said, I don't think flag quantity has a unique relationship with militarism.

 

[MobBoss]

Keynesianism requires injection of demand into the economy in the form of government spending. Defense spending is the biggest injector we have not only because the amount is so large. It is reliable, in that no matter how much we spend today there is no change in the demand for "the weapon of tomorrow" whereas you can only build so many roads and bridges to nowhere. It also injects much higher velocity money into the economy, as defense industries can vastly overprice their monopoly products, which leads to enormous salaries for relatively ordinary workers, which leads to large scale consumerism that feeds all other sectors of the economy.

If you can point out a comparably qualified candidate to replace defense spending without collapsing the economy please do, because a whole generation of economists has been searching for it more or less desperately.

Actually, wasn't our last economic crisis more about the bad home loan market?

 

[MobBoss]

One of the things that struck me about the US on a recent visit to New York City was the massive numbers of visible US flags; far more than in any other country I've been to.

That said, I don't think flag quantity has a unique relationship with militarism.

Well, you also have to consider that NYC is the location of the worst terror attack on US soil in all of history. Of course there's going to be a lot of flags there.

 

[Thedrin]

Actually, wasn't our last economic crisis more about the bad home loan market?

Yes, but that doesn't refute anything Tim said.

Well, you also have to consider that NYC is the location of the worst terror attack on US soil in all of history. Of course there's going to be a lot of flags there.

Me:
I don't think flag quantity has a unique relationship with militarism.