Is this a "Peace for our time" moment?

[Timsup2nothin]

Because Iran isn't a global superpower, so the US can simply choose to not allow them to have a bomb and since Iran is hostile to the West and their interests I can't say I would disagree with that.

So we have finally reached the bottom line. Why did you not just come right out and say "MIGHT MAKES RIGHT!!!!" straight out the gate?

 

[caketastydelish]

The Palestinians are the most well documented group of racists and liars on this planet.

I'm actually pro-Israel, and even I think this is a wrong (and outright disgusting) thing to say.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm actually pro-Israel, and even I think this is a wrong (and outright disgusting) thing to say.

You are just missing the civman perspective...the Palestinians have no MIGHT, therefore nothing about them is going to be RIGHT.

 

[JollyRoger]

The Palestinians are the most well documented group of racists and liars on this planet.

Since Palestinians are the most well documented racists and liars on the planet, can you give 10 documented instances of racism and 10 documented instances of lies?

 

[civman110]

Since Palestinians are the most well documented racists and liars on the planet, can you give 10 documented instances of racism and 10 documented instances of lies?

I just showed you a link. It's a BBC Documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy3aDIatrY0#t=293

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I just showed you a link. It's a BBC Documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy3aDIatrY0#t=293

So, because they tried to throw off their British colonial overlords while Britain was busy with WW2 they are "Nazi collaborators"? So I guess the American revolutionary war was "the first step on the road to national socialism" then? How about Gandhi? Was he a Nazi sympathizer with that "self rule for India" business?

This gets more hilarious by the minute.

 

[civman110]

So, because they tried to throw off their British colonial overlords while Britain was busy with WW2 they are "Nazi collaborators"? So I guess the American revolutionary war was "the first step on the road to national socialism" then? How about Gandhi? Was he a Nazi sympathizer with that "self rule for India" business?

This gets more hilarious by the minute.

So you'd join the Nazis to get your way. Got it.

Also I forgot to mention that Iran changed it's name from Persia to Iran which literally means Aryan as a gift to Hitler. Oops.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So you'd join the Nazis to get your way. Got it.

That is a strawmanning interpretation worthy of you, no question about it.

If I had been a colonial squirming under the British heel I'd have fought them, yes. I'd have certainly seen WW2 as an opportunity, yes. Since you have already espoused 'might makes right' as the basis of your own views on international relations one would think that you would agree with that wholeheartedly.

 

[Ajidica]

Ok I'm really tired of hearing this because Palestine was never a country and was never intended to be one.

What does that have to do with the Israeli government violating the terms of the Oslo Accords, expanding settlements despite US and EU condemnation, and Netanyahu saying he will not agree to a two-state solution (despite acceptance of a two-state solution being the cornerstone of all US, EU, and UN backed peace talks for the last twenty years).

The Palestinian Nationalist movement was founded by Hitler and Yassar Arafat's cousin (Haj Amin al-Husseini) who was a Nazi SS Solider and would later become the Mufti.

Correction, the al-Husseini became the Mufti of Jerusalem in 1921, before the Nazis were anything other than a street gang.

This is where political Islam originates from and this is the same ideology that the current leadership in Iran adheres to except they deny the holocaust happened unless they are comparing Jews to Nazis then they believe it existed.

Correction, some Iranians deny the Holocaust. The current president Rouhani on the other hand:

When asked to clarify his opinion about the Holocaust, Rouhani replied: "... in general, I can tell you that any crime that happens in history against humanity, including the crime the Nazis created towards the Jews as well as non-Jews is reprehensible and condemnable. Whatever criminality they committed against the Jews, we condemn"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Rouhani#Israel_and_Palestine
(Source in link)

Here is a BBC Documentary all about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy3aDIatrY0#t=293

Yes, the Grand Mufti had some collaboration with the Nazis but I fail to see the relevance that has for Palestinian statehood today.

 

[civman110]

If I had been a colonial squirming under the British heel I'd have fought them, yes.

Wow.

And people wonder why Israel doesn't want a 2-State Solution and why people are concerned about allowing Iran to have a nuclear bomb...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Wow.

And people wonder why Israel doesn't want a 2-State Solution and why people are concerned about allowing Iran to have a nuclear bomb...

At this point I think people mostly wonder what the heck you are talking about.

Can you make some sort of connection here please? What does the pretty much world wide resistance to European colonialism seven decades ago have to do with a two state solution or nuclear weapons in Iran?

Your mad leaps have long since made logical argument useless, but I must admit that at this point you have gone so far afield that even mockery can't follow you.

 

[JollyRoger]

I just showed you a link. It's a BBC Documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy3aDIatrY0#t=293

One documentary hardly makes the case for "most well documented racists and liars on the planet." If it is the most well documented, then you should easily be able to provide me the two top 10 lists that I have asked for.

 

[caketastydelish]

Also I forgot to mention that Iran changed it's name from Persia to Iran which literally means Aryan as a gift to Hitler. Oops.

Their name change was hardly "a gift to the nazis", although they did sort of side with Germany during WW2, that much was true. But the British were oppressing Iran and practically stealing their oil so can you blame Iranians for doing as much as they possibly could to get rid of their oppressors?

edit: Iranians have been referring to themselves as "Iranians" long before Hitler wanted them to or would otherwise care (I bet he didn't). Iranians have been referring to themselves as "Iranians" since the ancient days of the Persian Empire, well over 2000 years ago and even long before the birth of Christ. Refusing to go by "Persia" was only going back to their old ways, and even then a lot of Iranians call themselves Persians when talking to westerners (which I'm one of those that do) to avoid the stigma of being Iranian with comments such as yours.

One documentary hardly makes the case for "most well documented racists and liars on the planet." If it is the most well documented, then you should easily be able to provide me the two top 10 lists that I have asked for.

 

[Sonereal]

Wow.

And people wonder why Israel doesn't want a 2-State Solution and why people are concerned about allowing Iran to have a nuclear bomb...

Israel doesn't want Iran to have a nuclear bomb because it means the end of the Israeli monopoly of nuclear force in the region, not because they're legitimately afraid than the ayatollah is going to order a full nuclear strike against Israel the moment they have the bomb.

Israel opposes a two-state solution for various reasons, which I'm sure the ongoing settlement building will point to.

So you'd join the Nazis to get your way. Got it.

Also I forgot to mention that Iran changed it's name from Persia to Iran which literally means Aryan as a gift to Hitler. Oops.

Do you intentionally draw connections that don't exist, or is this just an accident? Iran is what Iranians have called Iran for a long time before the name change. Persia wast the Western name.

 

[caketastydelish]

We both know Iran wants to build a nuclear bomb and from many of your comments I can see that you don't particularly like the USA. I find this to be quite common among Iranians and Middle Easterners.

I don't think Tim is either Iranian or simply middle eastern. Although considering the United State's policy on the middle east, is it any wonder why middle easterners wouldn't like the USA? Personally I'll go as far to say I do love the USA as I'm an American myself. But I expect my country to not be a bully just because it can.

Middle Eastern and Iranian politics share this same sentiment. Those kinds of political beliefs only reinforce my opinion that it is absolutely against Western interests to allow Iran to obtain a nuclear bomb, since Iran is never going to align with Western interests. We also can't be sure that Iran isn't going to threaten Western interests severely enough that military action will be necessary.

Again, "I'm mad because the USA should have Iran by the balls, and if they lessen their grip that's no fair. "

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't think Tim is either Iranian or simply middle eastern. Although considering the United State's policy on the middle east, is it any wonder why middle easterners wouldn't like the USA? Personally I'll go as far to say I do love the USA as I'm an American myself. But I expect my country to not be a bully just because it can.

Good thinking, since I'm not.

I also expect the USA to not be a bully just because we can...but the might makes right crowd is a very strong voice in our policy, unfortunately.

 

[Kozmos]

Countries with power inevitably fall into that pattern, but at least there should be some carrots for the bullied and not just all stick.

 

[civman110]

Can you make some sort of connection here please?

You said you would fight with the Nazis if it meant getting your way.

This is the kind of mentality that I commonly come across with hardcore supporters of Palestinian Nationalism and the current regime in Iran, which both have strong ties with Hitler's Germany and Nazism. Neither are two groups of people I would ever support simply for those reasons alone, not to mention all of the other issue that I previously mentioned.

Israel doesn't want Iran to have a nuclear bomb because it means the end of the Israeli monopoly of nuclear force in the region, not because they're legitimately afraid than the ayatollah is going to order a full nuclear strike against Israel the moment they have the bomb.

The Ayatollah has said publicly that it would be acceptable to destroy Israel and kill all Jews.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ays-legal-religious-justification-attack.html

Iran's political and military leaders have said that they would specifically target Israeli civilians in order to destroy all Jews. That's textbook Nazism.

"The article, written by Alireza Forghani, an analyst and a strategy specialist in Khamenei’s camp, now is being run on most state-owned sites, including the Revolutionary Guards’ Fars News Agency, showing that the regime endorses this doctrine."

"Under this pre-emptive defensive doctrine, several Ground Zero points of Israel must be destroyed and its people annihilated. Forghani cites the last census by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics that shows Israel has a population of 7.5 million citizens of which a majority of 5.7 million are Jewish. Then it breaks down the districts with the highest concentration of Jewish people, indicating that three cities, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Haifa, contain over 60 percent of the Jewish population that Iran could target with its Shahab 3 ballistic missiles, killing all its inhabitants.

Forghani suggests that Iran’s Sejil missile, which is a two-stage rocket with a trajectory and speed that make it impossible to intercept, should target such Israeli facilities as: the Rafael nuclear plant, which is the main nuclear engineering center of Israel; the Eilun nuclear plant; another Israeli reactor in Nebrin; and the Dimona reactor in the nuclear research center in Neqeb, the most critical nuclear reactor in Israel because it produces 90 percent enriched uranium for Israel’s nuclear weapons.

Other targets, according to the article, include airports and air force bases such as the Sedot Mikha Air Base, which contains Jericho ballistic missiles and is located southwest of the Tel Nof Air Base, where aircraft equipped with nuclear weapons are based. Secondary targets include power plants, sewage treatment facilities, energy resources, and transportation and communication infrastructures.

Finally, Forghani says, Shahab 3 and Ghadr missiles can target urban settlements until the Israelis are wiped out."

http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/ayatollah-kill-all-jews-annihilate-israel/

And here's the video they ran on their state run TV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwiadYT-N9k

Their name change was hardly "a gift to the nazis", although they did sort of side with Germany during WW2, that much was true. But the British were oppressing Iran and practically stealing their oil so can you blame Iranians for doing as much as they possibly could to get rid of their oppressors?

They didn't "sort of" side with the Nazis. They did side with them and the name change was a gift to Hitler. This is the mentality of the people who are in power in Iran.

Yes, I absolutely can blame them for siding with the Nazis. Many countries separated from Britain, but they didn't accept Nazism to do it. Germany doesn't even preach Nazi ideology today, but Iran does and so do the Palestinian Nationalists.

One documentary hardly makes the case for "most well documented racists and liars on the planet." If it is the most well documented, then you should easily be able to provide me the two top 10 lists that I have asked for.

Watch the documentary. If you want to disregard that information based solely on the fact that I didn't list 10 documentaries then there is no point in even discussing this with you because you're being completely irrational.

BBC documentaries are widely accepted as credible sources.

 

[caketastydelish]

They didn't "sort of" side with the Nazis. They did side with them and the name change was a gift to Hitler. This is the mentality of the people who are in power in Iran.

Yes, I absolutely can blame them for siding with the Nazis. Many countries separated from Britain, but they didn't accept Nazism to do it. Germany doesn't even preach Nazi ideology today, but Iran does and so do the Palestinian Nationalists.

Ugh...

1) You keep insisting changing their name from "persia" (a greek name that Iranians don't even use to refer to themselves and never have unless talking to foreigners, particularly racist westerners whom they fear discrimination from) to "Iran" (which it had always been) was a "gift to hitler". You've said this many, many times, still don't have a valid sorce or any source for that matter.

2) The leaders of Iran have the same mentality of those 70 years ago? The Shah is the same as the Islamic republic? That's simplistic, at very best.

3) Iran doesn't "preach Nazi ideology" today.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You said you would fight with the Nazis if it meant getting your way.

Actually, of course, I said nothing of the sort, or even anything close to it.

As I said before, logical conversation is clearly impossible given this sort of wild leaping, and while mocking the ludicrous positions you take is entertaining it is obviously pointless. The way you blithely leap on to a totally unconnected position reveals that you aren't really invested in the nonsense you spew.