Is this an exploit or a strategy pt II?

[cabert]

I'm guessing this was fixed in a patch or something, because ...

Overflow cannot exceed HPT. The only way to accumulate overflow greater than your production potential is by chopping or temporarily increasing your production by assigning excessive priests/engineers and miners.

really?
My computer didn't seem to notice this, and I've patched as far as possible.

IMHO you didn't test before stating this, because I've had 81 hammers overflow + forge bonus going to the great library in a size 4 city.
I don't believe my size 4 city had 81 hpt .

Here is a very easy thing to test if your statement is true or not :
- pure commerce city (=1 hpt)
- start a library
- after 2 or 3 turns of work, whip it
- check the overflow. if it's only 1 hammer, then you're right and I'll stop posting altogether

 

[OTAKUjbski]

IMHO you didn't test before stating this, because I've had 81 hammers overflow + forge bonus going to the great library in a size 4 city.
I don't believe my size 4 city had 81 hpt .

Actually, I did.

Click me!!!

That was on a real game (the units I had been building moved to the rally point in case you're wondering why they're not in the city).

I also did a World Builder test in which I built a base 145 city with every + building imaginable and 10k gold to rush / chop / whip to test this.

 

[cabert]

Actually, I did.

Click me!!!

that's not a hpt issue, it's linked to what you build.
you didn't read my exploitive explanation well enough .
You won't get more overflow than the price of what you're building.
That's why you should build the less expensive stuff first.

+ you should use stuff you don't finish in 1 turn!

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I'd say I'm 94.729% sure about this one.

that's not a hpt issue, it's linked to what you build.
you didn't read my exploitive explanation well enough .
You won't get more overflow than the price of what you're building.
That's why you should build the less expensive stuff first.

+ you should use stuff you don't finish in 1 turn!

Explorers cost 40 . My overflow was 66 . 66 > 40. (I was getting more overflow than the price of what I was building.)

You could be right, though ... I'm probably skipping a step somewhere.

I also did a World Builder test in which I built a base 145 city with every + building imaginable and 10k gold to rush / chop / whip to test this.

I guess I need to re-run that test when I get home tonight (prolly 2200 CST [GMT -6.00]), because when I did it last night, I tried every imaginable avenue to get more overflow than my HPT and could only do it with chopping (which technically isn't 'overflow').

I was rushing wonders, units, buildings ... all kinds of stuff ... whipping them, chopping them, buying them. I never got it over my HPT.

Could you run this through your World Builder and post a screenie?

 

[cabert]

Explorers cost 40 . My overflow was 66 . 66 > 40. (I was getting more overflow than the price of what I was building.)

epic speed? HE effect?
hatd to tell.
What I can tell you is overflow has nothing to do with hpt

 

[druidravi]

not in warlords AFAIK

Are you sure, slavery which uses same mechanics as buying gets forge ,organized relegion bonuses. So I'm pretty sure it must be for cashg-rushing as well

 

[cabert]

Are you sure, slavery which uses same mechanics as buying gets forge ,organized relegion bonuses. So I'm pretty sure it must be for cashg-rushing as well

slavery doesn't use the same mechanics anymore, and yes slavery gets forge, OrgRel... bonus.
I'll check again, but I'm pretty sure you don't get the production bonuses for $rushing in warlords.

 

[UncleJJ]

Cash rushing definitely does not get any benefit from production bonusses. Under US it costs a straight 3 gold per hammer to complete a building or unit that has already had at least one turn of production invested. That cost is increased to 6 gold per hammer for wonders and projects (IIRC but do check that). If a new building or unit does not have any production invested then the cost is increased (by +50% IIRC or maybe doubled). The Kremlin reduces the cost of rush buying by 50% so the basic cost is then 2 gold per hammer.

Slavery of course does get production bonusses from forges etc.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I guess I need to re-run that test when I get home tonight.

I stand corrected.

I guess overflow from production can't exceed HPT. And, gold pays only for the remainder of what you'll need to finish the build. This is only possible by whipping and can be compounded by chain-whipping.

As far as -rushing and % bonuses, it doesn't get them. Whip- and chop-rushing does, though. (I ran that through the World Builder, too.)

 

[cabert]

I stand corrected.

I guess overflow from production can't exceed HPT. And, gold pays only for the remainder of what you'll need to finish the build. This is only possible by whipping and can be compounded by chain-whipping.

As far as -rushing and % bonuses, it doesn't get them. Whip- and chop-rushing does, though. (I ran that through the World Builder, too.)

try it this EXACT way:
turn 1 : start building something that needs more than 1 turn
turn 2 : start building something else tat needs more than 1 turn
turn 3: $rsh item 2
turn 4 : $ rush item 1
turn 5 : whatever you start you will have exactly 2 turns worth of production as overflow (provided item 1 costs more than 2 turns of production)

 

[Ecofarm]

Previous build no longer limits overflow. Base production has never done so. There is no limit. It will carry over through multiple builds. Chop 6 forests on the same turn in a 1 hpt city, and watch warriors pop every turn for awhile.

 

[druidravi]

Cash rushing definitely does not get any benefit from production bonusses. Under US it costs a straight 3 gold per hammer to complete a building or unit that has already had at least one turn of production invested. That cost is increased to 6 gold per hammer for wonders and projects (IIRC but do check that). If a new building or unit does not have any production invested then the cost is increased (by +50% IIRC or maybe doubled). The Kremlin reduces the cost of rush buying by 50% so the basic cost is then 2 gold per hammer.

Slavery of course does get production bonusses from forges etc.

Silently goes back and reloads to the turn democracy is researched and not cash rush forges this time .

 

[vale]

Cabert is right. And OTAKUjbski is right. The hammer overflow is limited by the maximum out of total hammers needed for the previous build and Hammer Per Turn. Any excess beyond that is converted to gold at a 1 gold for 1 hammer rate. Gold multipliers do not come into play (this works just like wealth).

As an example here is a marathon barracks (150 hammers)getting overkill chopped out pre-maths:

Before:

Yes that is a forest in the coast. What can I say I'm lazy about world buildering this type of stuff up.

And after:

ZOMG, I'm rich!

Now with a ridiculous hammer per turn on a 80 hammer marathon explorer before:

And notice the overflow after:

I have shots with markets and stuff inside the city to show that the commerce multipliers don't change how the wealth conversion happens but I'm just hoping you guys will take my word for it.

BTW, this is with warlords 2.08. Is there a new patch that changes this Ecofarm?

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Now THIS feels like an exploit ...

... I think I'm more than ever, lol.

 

[r_rolo1]

This means that chopping can be used as a cash source before currency.... . That can be very useful .

 

[vale]

Now THIS feels like an exploit ...

Well, I did abuse the well known ctrl-w exploit to set these up.

I'm more than ever

It isn't too complicated. From the little experiment I did I think this is how overflow is handled:

1. The game figures out which is higher, the total hammers produced per turn by the city or the cost of the previous build. Lets call that max_overflow
2. If the amount left over from the previous build is more than the max_overflow, the overflow you get is max_overflow and you get the difference in gold. Otherwise you just get the entire amount as overflow.
3. Profit

This means that chopping can be used as a cash source before currency....

As can whipping. Whipping warriors doesn't seem nearly as wasteful as it did before I found this out this morning.

 

[vale]

Step 1. Build a warrior to within 1 turn of completion
Step 2. Whip it and move it down in the queue until your math powered forest is chopped
Step 3. When the forest comes in, move the warrior back up:

Step 4. Profit:

That money can fund a decent amount of deficit research. I dunno how abusable this is but I'm willing to try

 

[mrt144]

sick!

 

[r_rolo1]

I'm seeing a new economy type . How about Overflow economy?

 

[vale]

Well keep in mind this was on marathon so 150 gold isn't all that great. Don't forget to scale everything back to allow for game speed. But this does seem like a way to possibly keep a REXed empire afloat while its economy catches up.

You could use Caberts repeated overflow trick with whipping instead of buy rushing to add to this and chop multiple forests simultaneously to turn more of the forest hammers into gold than hammers.