IS

[Timsup2nothin]

What the hell are you on about? How did the Soviets have anything to do with the decades of US troops occupying Japan and West Germany to stabilize the country? That the kinda thing it's gonna take with direct military action against ISIL. We'd have to literally run the country like a colony for a generation.

And that's only if we totally and completely beat them down first, with cooperation and assistance from every neighbor on every side, so they have absolutely no hope of resistance accomplishing anything.

 

[Tigranes]

“The US can direct strikes to terrorists, but after having the prior consent of the government of the country it wants to hit terrorism on its territories,” said Lavrov, underlining the necessity that Washington cooperates with the legitimate authorities in case it has plans to fight IS on the Syrian territories or elsewhere.

Meanwhile, Lavrov called for including Syria itself in the Friends of Syria group.

Established in 2012, the group comprises Egypt, France, Germany, Italy, Jordan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

“I suggest that the Friends of Syria group should after all include Syria itself as the Syrian government is facing the threat of terrorism,” Lavrov said.

I wonder how Lavrov feels about himself after making such statements? Does he enjoy picturing faces in America after reading these propositions? So after calling Assad every name in a book USA should ask permission from Assad to help him to fight the common threat, IS. And also Syria itself should become friend with itself, with Assad helping to stabilize Syria without himself.

 

[Nares]

Probably deserving of its own thread, recent DDoS attacks appear to be part of an organized effort by islamist terrorists to disrupt Western entertainment networks.

Eventually some strongman of Saddam-esque proportion will arise and take charge while mouthing the right platitudes at the US and Europe to be appreciated for 'bringing peace to the region' instead of demonized, and Iraq, or Iraq-Syria, or whatever, will be armed to fight Iran.

No no, let's just keep paying them millions per hostage, while whining about how oppressive we are.

That'll sure encourage them to change their ways.

Though I agree that a barbaric dictator who indiscriminately slaughters his own people was and sadly will continue to be the best method for keeping the many barbaric fanatics following islam in check.

I feel bad for Europe; large and growing populations of Muslims have taken root throughout many European countries over the last two decades. Wonder if they'll say no to sharia before they're incapable of stopping it by democratic means.

So after calling Assad every name in a book USA should ask permission from Assad to help him to fight the common threat, IS.

Assad should be the first target; then ISIS.

And that's only if we totally and completely beat them down first

Not necessarily.

More damaging was the anti-war campaign; if you're not even committed to staying for 25-50 years to see the job done right, then no amount of regional support is going make a difference.

But we can never accuse Democrats of abandoning people for the sake of some political points....only Republicans are guilty of that, right?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

More damaging was the anti-war campaign; if you're not even committed to staying for 25-50 years to see the job done right, then no amount of regional support is going make a difference.

But we can never accuse Democrats of abandoning people for the sake of some political points....only Republicans are guilty of that, right?

The example stated was Germany and Japan after WWII. Those examples worked for what they were illustrating (a generation long occupation can redirect a society) until you consider the difference that I pointed out. You can theorize that a generation long occupation can redirect a society without having them beaten down completely and isolated...but you can't use Germany and Japan as examples of that theory at work, because they were beaten down and isolated.

Considering that Israel has occupied a non isolated Palestine for three generations with no indication that they have successfully redirected that society I'd say your theory is full of holes.

 

[kochman]

How have the neo-con geniuses found in the WH for the last 30+ years (same people, different faces/names) not figured this conundrum out yet?
They are so good normally.

 

[Borachio]

You can't engage someone in debate if his idea of a counterargument involves beheading you or blowing you and him both up with a bomb strapped to his chest. Engaging in debate requires both sides be willing to talk.

I can't deny this.

But the overwhelming majority of people, even of the most extreme kind, are only too happy to talk. Often enough you can't shut them up once you give them the chance to talk to someone who they think is seriously listening.

 

[Gucumatz]

So apparently a bunch of UN peacekeepers (like 40-50) have been taken prisoner in Syria. Its unsure if this was by militants or even the Syrian regime itself

 

[Tigranes]

^^ Most likely rebels, but I don't think those are IS linked rebels. Assad was in control here previously, and lost control recently.

It is interesting that US is admitting it does not even have plan against IS:

President Obama admitted today that his administration does not have a strategy to combat the militant Islamic group ISIS that has grabbed large chunks of Iraq and Syria.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

^^ Most likely rebels, but I don't think those are IS linked rebels. Assad was in control here previously, and lost control recently.

It is interesting that US is admitting it does not even have plan against IS:

Are we supposed to?

 

[Tigranes]

The genie of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was "set free" during massive bottle breaking known as Operation of Iraqi Freedom. Perhaps US administration has some deep hidden feeling of being uneasy everytime Iraq is mentioned.

 

[Tigranes]

Here is more sad news with eerie cause-effect relationship between bad terror and war on terror gone bad

At least four hostages held in Syria by Islamic State militants, including U.S. journalist James Foley, were waterboarded during their captivity, The Washington Post reported on Thursday, citing people familiar with the treatment of Western hostages.

The Islamic State captors appeared to model the technique on that of the CIA, which waterboarded three terrorism suspects captured after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on Washington and New York, the Post said. Foley was subsequently beheaded by his captors.

Waterboarding, a process characterized by President Barack Obama and many other U.S. politicians as torture, simulates drowning. Captives have water poured over their noses and mouths until they feel as if they are suffocating.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

For what it's worth, they don't 'feel as if they were suffocating'. They are. It just isn't (usually) sustained long enough to kill them.

 

[Borachio]

So, a bit like holding one's breath, then? Doesn't sound all that bad. Though I expect it is. Or no one would use it as torture.

I wonder how torturers would react to someone practiced in free diving.

 

[Wastl]

So, a bit like holding one's breath, then? Doesn't sound all that bad. Though I expect it is. Or no one would use it as torture.

I wonder how torturers would react to someone practiced in free diving.

It's not like just holding your breath. Imagine swimming in a lake with someone coming up from behind you without you noticing it, pushing your head under water before you can react and not letting you get up again. There are different techniques, but the feeling is probably about the same in every one of them.

Would probably make no difference at all. If you are free diving, you are usually focusing on it and prepare yourself for it. No such thing is possible when you are panicking or have no time to react, which would be the case every single time. It's not like they wait for you to be fully prepared to be tortured that way.

 

[kochman]

Let's invite these guys to join the forum?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/isis-terrorists-film-mass-execution-250-syrian-soldiers-article-1.1920104

 

[Borachio]

It's not like just holding your breath. Imagine swimming in a lake with someone coming up from behind you without you noticing it, pushing your head under water before you can react and not letting you get up again. There are different techniques, but the feeling is probably about the same in every one of them.

I'm interested. Have you experienced it yourself?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm interested. Have you experienced it yourself?

I haven't, but I know the basic concept. Force to inhale water. It takes more than one breath full of water to kill someone, but one breath with water in it triggers all the reflexes that are meant to keep you from drowning. Waterboarding starts where holding your breath leaves off. Ever been taking a drink and had it 'go down the wrong pipe' as the vernacular says?

 

[Borachio]

I have.

Honestly, I don't fancy being waterboarded at all. Or any kind of torture, really.

Electrodes attached to various tender areas? No thanks.

They do say one of the worst is the fake execution.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I have.

Honestly, I don't fancy being waterboarded at all. Or any kind of torture, really.

Electrodes attached to various tender areas? No thanks.

They do say one of the worst is the fake execution.

Fake execution, waterboarding, holding someone by their feet over the edge of a tall building...violent demonstrations of 'your life is in our hands'. You can sit in a cell and know that, but having it demonstrated is a whole different matter. The painful torture methods are a different arena, and generally recognized as less effective (as well as being harder to pass off as not really torture).

 

[Tigranes]

Let's invite these guys to join the forum?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/isis-terrorists-film-mass-execution-250-syrian-soldiers-article-1.1920104

Not sure if the weight of your comment corresponds to the weight of this yet another gruesome tragedy. Not watching IS videos is sometimes the only way to avoid depression, special forces need to watch them, not the average civilians. This is the very same desert where 100 years ago Young Turks been sending Armenian women, elderly, and children to die in hundreds of thousands. Everytime they say Syrian Desert, Armenians hear "hell".

Anyways, after 100 years world seem to evolve to have more responsive while witnessing atrocities. At least Britain thinks IS is a more serious than most people here:

Prime Minister David Cameron says he'll introduce new laws to combat terror suspects, pledging to seize passports to fight what he described as an extremist threat more dangerous than any previously seen.
Cameron's remarks came just after authorities on Friday raised the terror threat level to severe, the second highest level. The decision was related to developments in Iraq and Syria, but there was no information to suggest an attack was imminent.
Cameron told reporters that while the Taliban facilitated al Qaeda terrorism, the Islamic State group is "effectively a state run by terrorists."

"We could be facing a terrorist state on the shores of the Mediterranean and bordering a NATO member," he said.