NukaNESIOT: Superpowers

[Tyo]

Completely ignoring whatever seems to be going on here, Russia has an announcement to make.

At the request of the Ukrainian people, Russia henceforth pledges support for Ukraine. If the Concordat does not pull back, we will bring our forces to bear.

 

[Grandkhan]

Why does NukeNES have any narrative at all? It was pretty clear to me from the moment of joining that it's a gamey game with gamey game objectives (i.e. elimination).

Thats fine. My issue is not plausibility, its balance. Losing at turn 2 isn't balanced in any way. That makes the issue worse, because if its about the narrative writing out the slow decline of your nation is fun. Its not fun to play though.

Again though, I want to point out that the emphasis is on country vs country combat. In regards to supply lines, there are reasonable concerns of it being unrealistic that I am willing to address. I am contemplating that units cannot be reinforced at the start of the turn unless in your national boundaries, and would implement that likely at the end of the Fall update.

I'm not hugely keen on this, because it just swings the scale the other way. Its not invasions themselves that are broken, its the first turn that is.

IMF regulations are coming this turn like I said, but if anyone has suggestions, I am more than happy to take them into consideration

Suggestions:
1) limit the amount you can borrow in the first turn of the war. If you're in a war then borrow as much as you want, but you shouldn't be able to borrow twice your income to dump all your money into launching one ridiculous assault. If the risk-free nature of the action is reduced then this is less of an issue.
2) regain stability for retaking cities and lose stability for losing occupied cities in the enemy territory. As it is, turning around the war does nothing for your stability. I turned the war around last time, but then I had a rebellion in my back. Once you get invaded you have a ticking time bomb in your back, which makes matters far worse. On the other hand the enemy gets a massive amount of stability for the first offensive and never really loses it. It makes a war of attrition impossible, because you can't bog them down - you're squatting on a stability-induced time bomb and they can sit there for as long as they want.
3) actual consequences for not paying back your loans. Mexico missed a debt repayment and literally nothing happened - whats the point of loans if nobody pays them back?

The fundamental problem is that actions like Mexico's in wars 1&2, Japans, and Indonesia's are consequence free. This kind of thing should be a gamble - a high risk, high reward strategy. As it is, there's no risk to it, there's no chance of losing anything. And then you keep doing it over and over and over again because worst case scenario you take three cities and kick them again when they're down.

No player has, at this point, funded an insurgency in their own country to fight back.

Nobody can. You lose so much in the first invasion that you can't spare any for anything else.

Also i swear Nuke I'm just going to write so many IF-ELSE contingencies in my orders i might as well write them in C.

 

[Nuka-sama]

Oh so one thing that has come to my attention is that Europe did not have casualties listed. The EC did in fact take casualties and that will be addressed.

This game does put the benefit on bold moves but within reason. The game is about taking gambles, yes. Crezth for the turn that he invaded China lived at the complete mercy of Masada. The USA could very well enlist the aid of Brazil as an example; their troops are definitely within range of Mexico.

The first turn issue could be one thing to mitigate the overwhelming advantage the attacker has, though again I do allow for contingency spending, but it may be something that can be addressed

(Side note on contingencies, as I do not want this to become ludicrous or say "WHY DIDN'T YOU FOLLOW MY CONTINGENCIES". A contingency is planning for multiple different operations. A good contingency plan can be: If the Iranians have 3 armies invading Iraq, use our two armies to defend, if the Iranians have only 1 or 2, use our 2nd Army to invade Kuwait. A bad contingency would be something that makes use of, to steal from Shadowbound, "Schrodinger's Army". You can't defend every place in your country at once, but you can try anticipating the moves of your enemy and then counterattack them.)

On a third sidenote, I am pretty mentally exhausted from this weekend (work spillage) and needing to decompress. Stats will be done Tuesday ideally, and I'm looking at doing a Saturday/Sunday update. Sorry for the delay, even machines can break ><

 

[Terran Empress]

Also i swear Nuke I'm just going to write so many IF-ELSE contingencies in my orders i might as well write them in C.

Whelp, glad I do have SOME coding knowledge now, even if I hate to code myself. Because this joke was golden XD

well done sir, /claps

Edit:

On a third sidenote, I am pretty mentally exhausted from this weekend (work spillage) and needing to decompress. Stats will be done Tuesday ideally, and I'm looking at doing a Saturday/Sunday update. Sorry for the delay, even machines can break ><

Hey, just want to say, but if we are continuing the same update/orders due schedule, that pretty much gives people less than 24 hours to get in for the stability bonus, and just over 24 to get orders actually in. It's your game, but it doesn't really seem super fair to the players IMO, since we physically cannot do orders with out stats. Unless we want to calculate them all on our own, without any fancy tools or w/e you have.

just my two cents

 

[Nuka-sama]

The schedule will be adjusted accordingly

 

[Decamper]

The USA could very well enlist the aid of Brazil as an example; their troops are definitely within range of Mexico.

Don't give them ideas D:

I also agree with not allowing going into debt the same turn you declare war. Seeing your neighbour suddenly go deeply into debt will be a neat little indicator you're about to have some fun, and give you time to buff up your own troops.

@Crezth - I'm entirely in agreement with you, I was just replying to your post as it seemed to be actively suggesting removing all of the fluff. I like my fluff.

 

[Crezth]

Thats fine. My issue is not plausibility, its balance. Losing at turn 2 isn't balanced in any way. That makes the issue worse, because if its about the narrative writing out the slow decline of your nation is fun. Its not fun to play though.

I can surely attest to the power of first strikes in this game, but I think more than that is the problem that we don't actually know or understand the rules of combat. You just sort of throw armies at the enemy, and without understanding some sort of cost-benefits trade-off between, say, a Green army vs a Veteran one, or many inexpensive divisions versus fewer costly divisions, or air superiority vs lack thereof, it's difficult to adjudicate beyond rules of thumb what your chances are. We as players are led to believe (from Nuke's emphasis on strategic details in our orders) that our creativity and gumption make up the difference, which is all well and good and cool from a roleplaying perspective but can lead to massive miscalculations e.g. "I think I can hold this border with a Green army." Hence I would appreciate either more autonomous capability or more transparency with the rules. Players can't really be expected to manage all the levers, knobs, and dials of a system they don't understand. "AI" management of armies vis a vis being invaded would be a huge improvement. If your destroyed Green army had retreated instead of being routed utterly, or if your other army had rushed to help defend the border, we might be looking at a very different situation right now.

The other thing, which has also been mentioned, is that we frankly have too few armies to defend all the borders at once (whereas NPCs have a vague army strength that is stretched across their entire country like a gradient). The army system is fun, I mean, I love the way armies are represented as discrete units in this game, with locations on the map and everything, but it certainly seems the advantage is on fewer armies with more divisions in them because it's cheaper money wise. Naturally this implies more force concentration. I'd suggest making armies cheaper ($5 per) with lower threshold caps on upkeep (like $1 upkeep/7-10 units) to encourage making more armies and thus having more operational flexibility. If China had had six armies instead of three when I attacked, more of that force capability could have been diverted to a homeland garrison. Of course, maybe in that situation they attack Russia with all six armies and still leave no garrison, but at least then they have more of an option.

On the whole I'm positive about Superpowers because I think it's one of the few rulesets in NES (don't know about IOT) with a clear mission statement. It purports to be a gamey game with gamey game rules and it's very clear about that. You get economy, spend economy on shooty-mans, and use shooty-mans to take other people's economy. Good stuff.

 

[Zappericus]

The Glorious and Democratic Empire of Brazil announces that it is denouncing the outright imperialist aggression shown by the Mexican government against the US, and adds that any further military actions against the states will result in nuclear retaliation. Cease, and desist, you warmongering pondscum.

 

[christos200]

We support Brazil and as per the terms of our alliance, if Brazil goes to war with Mexico, we shall follow suit.

 

[Nuka-sama]

Stats have been updated. Friday for the 2% bonus (5 PM PST), Saturday 12 PM PST for the 1% bonus.

@Shadowbound I owe you a PM later.

@All, I believe I have addressed all private concerns, VM or PM me if you have a question you feel I did not answer.

-----

At the moment in regards to the rules, I am contemplating changes suggested by Crezth regarding army size, reverting the turns back to 1 month, or giving a PM notification that you were attack. I am heavily leaning to the last, but for the moment we will stick with the status quo

 

[Decamper]

At the moment in regards to the rules, I am contemplating changes suggested by Crezth regarding army size, reverting the turns back to 1 month, or giving a PM notification that you were attack. I am heavily leaning to the last, but for the moment we will stick with the status quo

I would highly recommend not sending PMs, as that will undoubtedly stretch out orders period, as well as give you additional work. Also incentivises sending attack orders in as late as possible to give your opposition less time to send revise orders, or you'll be forced to extend deadlines constantly to allow for order revisions. Contingency orders make more sense, at least to me. If sneak attacks are absolutely off the menu, then might as well make it a rule that players must declare war in thread a set amount of time before deadlines.

As for turn times, why not just reduce army movement? The amount of time that takes place in an update is artificial anyways. Can't say I'm in favour of it either way, as slower armies will draw out the pacing.

 

[Shadowbound]

Europe is no more OP than Argentina was when I played it. It's just that my first move is to castrate my nearest rival, leaving me with unopposed expansion.

I am OP.

Completely ignoring whatever seems to be going on here, Russia has an announcement to make.

At the request of the Ukrainian people, Russia henceforth pledges support for Ukraine. If the Concordat does not pull back, we will bring our forces to bear.

I completely missed this the first time, so...

Bring Sajuuk to bear. Bring Sajuuk to bear. Bring Sajuuk to bear!

 

[Nuka-sama]

Some stat errors have been fixed

 

[Warriorx1]

South African Fighters do battle over the Atlantic

Federation troops continue their assault upon the FDRWA. This time the action was in the sky. Mobius Squadron and Galm Squadron from the naval forces did battle with the WAAF Tactical Command. The battle was a bloody affair with planes swirling about. Several South African Aces were made that day, many of them among the premier group from Mobius Squadron. The West African did put up quite a fight and did get in some lucky shots.

The SAS Nandi was suck in a suicide attack by WAAF strike fighters. Luckily most of the crew that wasn't killed outfight was easily picked up by the 1st NTF. Still the loss of a carrier was a big blow to the South African naval pride and they took much pleasure in hunting down the rest of the West African planes. With the skies controlled by the Federation, the West African ground troops were easy targets. Strike fighter and gunship raids destroyed much of their fighting power, fighting power that they couldn't easily replace. President Blair's military staff believe that they are now primed for the final blow.

Still despite the overwhelming success of the operation, many wonder about the cost. Not only in lives but treasure. The liberation of the West African country has been far easier than say the Asian war but has cost us almost as much. Many are starting to get a distaste for war and want the government to focus on other projects instead. Plus the war has brought about a massive debt which many had hoped to avoid as well as the need to police a rather large area. It is unclear how the President will respond, but with high approval numbers he is likely to have an easy time getting whatever he wants.

 

[Nuka-sama]

Reminder that the Friday deadline is coming

 

[Omega124]

This is a decision I'm not taking lightly. As of now I'm effectively dropping from the game.

Now, I could give a thesis on how I agree with khan that nuka is overcompensating the strength of offensive play while making defensive play worthless, or how his initial handling of the tyo situation was abysmal and that it is still screwing me over to this day, but I don't really feel like starting yet another argument and I don't ever plan on looking at this thread again. Plus, deep down, that's not the real reason why I am quitting.

This game just isn't fun.

It's not.

This game has OOC made me a miserable wreck. Now, some of it has been because, not naming names, but some of you have been pretty toxic towards terra and I. But most of it is my fault. Because of the snide comments at me, I wanted so badly to prove everyone wrong, that I could turn the situation around and prove that I wasn't a moron. But at this point, I'm honestly too depressed over the whole situation that I don't even care anymore. Does that make me a quiiter? Yeah, it does, but again, I don't even care at this stage. I have too many real problems as-is; I don't need a game and its community to make me feel bad about myself.

I almost lost two friendships over this game, and I think it might be a third if I don't just pack it up and leave. I think its telling when I actively dread seeing the next update, since it means this nightmare of a game is still going on.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[Nuka-sama]

Mmm. I'm sorry to hear that. :/

For all others, I'm still missing one or two orders, and will give you until the end of tonight for them.

 

[Nuka-sama]

So all can be aware, I am still aiming for a later week update. Hoping for Fri/Sat, but with Halloween weekend being here it might be Sunday

 

[Warriorx1]

Are we still on track for an update?

 

[Nuka-sama]

Yes. Map has been completed, calculations are done, its mostly just doing the write up at this point