Islam comes too late

[SmartMuffin]

Has anyone ever seen an AI with Islam as it's state religion?

I sure haven't.

It seems to me that by the time Divine Right is discovered (unless a human player beelines for it), most of the world already knows each other, therefore everyone has come into contact with and picked a religion. Furthermore, the AIs that found Islam typically have already founded other religions, thus offering them no incentive to switch.

I think that somehow, Islam needs to be able to get founded earlier. I've NEVER seen an AI with it as its state religion. Bhuddism/Hinduism/Judaism/Christianity (via Oracle) are all accessible right away. Confucianism and Taoism aren't that much later, but Islam takes so long, it's almost a totally irrelevant force on the game.

Anyone else like to see this adjusted to make Islam relevant?

 

[Psyringe]

Yup. I suggest giving Islam a higher spread rate, or making its missionaries cheaper. I'd do the same for Christian missionaries. But Firaxis probably won't change its (understandable) position to treat all religions as equal as possible. So it's up to the modders to change them (which isn't too difficult fortunately).

 

[SmartMuffin]

But my point is that the later start means that Islam is NOT equal. Were it not for the Oracle-leap to Theology (prereqs are Writing and Monotheism, not tough, and typically, Theology is the most expensive tech avalible when you build the Oracle, therefore the best to pick for beaker conservation) I'd say Christianity too, but typically I build the Oracle, found Christianity in like 500 BC, and it spreads and influences the world just fine.

My point is that if you say "all religions are equal" yet in virtually every game, 50% of the world is Bhuddist and 5% is Islamic, well, then they AREN'T equal, now are they?

 

[Psyringe]

Yes, I agree. But Firaxis apparently doesn't. However, as I said, this is a) understandable, and b) not too bad either, since they provided us with very easy tools to mod the effects of religions.

 

[SenhorDaGuerra]

I think they are trying to add some sort of realism as to when the religions actually came about. islam was founded in 500ad, so thats 500 years after christianity, and proly something silly like 2000 years after judaism.

 

[SmartMuffin]

Right, but the fact that one religion dominates every game (Bhuddism) and another is practically irrelevant (Islam) just seems odd to me, and detracts from the perceived idea of them all being equal.

Oh, and one free missionary isn't quite the difference maker either.

 

[warpus]

I think they are trying to add some sort of realism as to when the religions actually came about. islam was founded in 500ad, so thats 500 years after christianity, and proly something silly like 2000 years after judaism.

the way islam was able to spread so much in real life was through military conquest. i think this should be modded into the game - the ability to go on religious jihads, conquering cities and removing any religious influence any other religions might have in them.. and inserting your own.

i'm not sure if this would solve all the problems w/ islam in the game, but it's a good start.

 

[D. Minky]

What also bothers me is that Buddhism is *Always* the first religion founded. It should've been Hinduism. Buddhism was strongly influenced by Hindu theology, and definitely should not be discovered first.

 

[Halberd]

I got flamed for saying it before when the discussion was about Holy Cities... but another reason why religion is lame in CIV is that:

Buddhism & Hinduism holy city - likely to be in capital or 1st city (so oldest, most cultural, biggest by end game)

All other religions - increase random factor of where Holy City is, with penalty on latest (highest randomness as likely to be most cities), therefore Islam further denigrated ... also turns up when many civs will be locked into religious blocks with organised religion.

Bit of a naff way to deal with the world's second largest religion, really.

 

[al_thor]

Totally agree. Islam is ALWAYS the weakest religion. Christianity can sometimes do okay, but even that can suffer from being a "late" bloomer.

 

[baboon]

What also bothers me is that Buddhism is *Always* the first religion founded. It should've been Hinduism. Buddhism was strongly influenced by Hindu theology, and definitely should not be discovered first.

I've seen games where Buddhism was pretty much neglected, and I was tempted to research it. Isabella was probably not around in that game.

 

[MrCynical]

I have once seen the biggest civ in the game have Islam as a state religion, but it is very unusual. In that game Divine Right had been discovered unusually early, and the civ actually bothered to send missionaries all over the place.

 

[SmartMuffin]

I got flamed for saying it before when the discussion was about Holy Cities... but another reason why religion is lame in CIV is that:

Buddhism & Hinduism holy city - likely to be in capital or 1st city (so oldest, most cultural, biggest by end game)

All other religions - increase random factor of where Holy City is, with penalty on latest (highest randomness as likely to be most cities), therefore Islam further denigrated ... also turns up when many civs will be locked into religious blocks with organised religion.

Bit of a naff way to deal with the world's second largest religion, really.

This is so true. In my last game I played as Louis and went for Cultural Victory. I founded both Christiantiy and Islam, and both times they were founded in a city that I had just built less than two turns ago. I think that if you found the religion, you should be able to select which city becomes Holy, or at least have it randomize between GOOD cities.

 

[skadistic]

my games have vastly diffrent religious out comes. right now i'm the only civ with budism ( killed the other 2 )and 3 are cristian and 4 are muslim and 1 jewish. Islam is very strong and is spreading in my land. In my last game all but 1 civ was christian (me, i never get out of budism untill free religion ).

 

[Lucas87]

Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism all often have powerful impacts on the game. I have quite often seen Confuicianism and Christianity have powerful impacts on the game too, since it is very easy to rush them. (Oracle or Great Phophet) Also, since I often spend my time on other things in the early game, it's nice that these religions start with a missionary. If they wanted to keep all the religions the same in terms of how quickly they spread and cost of missionaries etc. I think they should change how many missionaries each religion started with. Like I would say 0 for Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism and 1 for Christianity and Confucianism. This is already the case. However, I think Taoism should start with at least 2 and Islam at least 3. You could test it out with different numbers to balance it properly, but these religions need to be able to make up for the lost time and I think this is the easiest least intrusive and potentially offensive way of doing so.

 

[Gr3yL3gion]

Well, as the human player most propably go for oracle, most of us always ended up as the founders of confusianism or christianity.

Islam only being use most propably dependent on the types of map. IMO archipelogo maps have the best chance to have all religion playing a bigger role than pangea maps.

 

[Carewolf]

I play on large or huge islands maps, and I often see AIs with Islam or Taoism as state religions. It never really spreads to more nations though, and the nations that gets it usually becomes isolated.

 

[FeelGood]

I agree with you.... In any of my games, Islam has never been an influential religion except if I want it. The most prominent is usually Hinduism or Buddhism. Well, in term of reality, Islam does comes later, so does in the game, but this usually render it useless and irrelevant since most of the world has adopted earlier religion in most of the game.

I like the idea of giving it more free missionaries to start.

 

[BubbaYeti]

I think they should change how many missionaries each religion started with. Like I would say 0 for Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism and 1 for Christianity and Confucianism. This is already the case. However, I think Taoism should start with at least 2 and Islam at least 3

Lucas87 you have hit the nail on the head. I think this is exactly how the mod should go to balance out religions. Might not be complete balance but this seems like a very simple and sound way to address the problem.

 

[Roxinante]

I disagree on two points -

I have seen the AI with Islam as its state religion - usually its a conversion, but I've had states which have been happy with me jump ship when they found Islam.

The weakest religion in most of my games tends to be Daoism - which rarely takes much hold ever. Hinduism and Budhism spread rapidly early on, but if a big power gets Christianity, that can spread fast. Judaism tends not to spread fast if its an AI religion; its currently mine as China on the Earth scenario, and I'm a big prostelyser - I have one city entirely devoted to missionaries - and once I've converted every one of my cities, I send them off to foreign cities.
So, in my game, Earth in 1868 is stacked up like this:
Christianity 36% founded by India
Judaism 21% founded by China (human)
Hinduism 13% founded by China (human)
Budhism 6% founded by Egypt
Islam 6% founded by Germany
Daoism 3% founded by Japan