I have nothing to add other than my shock.
Italian scientists guilty of manslaughter after failing to warn about earthquake
- Thread starter Truronian
- Start date
anandus
Errorist
So when are the meteorologists due in court for the accountability of deaths due to lightning strikes?
And of course next up are the economists that didn't predict the economic crisis.
And of course next up are the economists that didn't predict the economic crisis.
holy king
Deity
they can both shout really loud.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Seconded. Even the shape is broadly similar.
gangleri2001
Garbage day!!!
Edit.
onedreamer
Dragon
Astoundment is generally consequent to ignorance of facts. Prior to the deadly earthquake the city and the region had been struck by a serious of minor earthquakes. Houses in this region have been built with little care for security and resistance against earthquakes and several of these houses were at risk. So much that many citizens would sleep in their cars or away from home. Part of the scientific community started to warn about the possibility of a stronger earthquake that could cause much damage, hence the Department of Civil Protection (the organism that is supposed to organize evacuations and such) asked for an opinion on the matter by the "Great Risks Commision", which elaborates statistical data about all possible disasters, earthquakes and beyond. This Commission most probably because of political pressure (Berlusconi and his politics of optimism and carefree were at government at the time) after a lightining meeting deliberated that the data that part of the scientific community judged as worrisome was actually showing a normal path, that there was no excalation in the phenomena and that hence there was no risk of a strong earthquake. It was even worse as the people who warned about the possibility of the earthquake were called "cartomancers" on the grounds that earthquakes can't be predicted, however they contradicted themselves since in my book if they can't be predicted then they can't be excluded as well, which is what the Commission did. End result those people with houses at risk that would sleep outside were reassured and went back to sleep at home and a bunch of days thereafter three hundred people lost their lives. There also aggravations to these facts. For example a couple of the same 6 or 7 (can't remember) which signed the document that excluded a strong earthquake had been writing and signing the exact opposite in the previous months. Hence the judges agreed with the accuse that these scientists have been divulging false informations or hiding all the data in their posses.
onedreamer
Dragon
And you say that with asbolute certainty because you have read both the accuse and the sentence. You haven't sentenced the court as seriously ******** without having first checked facts throughly because that would be, well... ********.
Mise
isle of lucy
I actually think that there is a point where a prediction or proclamation by a group of prominent scientists is irresponsible to the point of criminal negligence. I don't know whether that point was reached in this case, because I don't know all the facts. Onedreamer suggests that these scientists had a sort of duty of care over the people living in the town, which supports this conviction. What I do know is that Italy is not exactly renowned for its equitable dispensation of justice.
onedreamer
Dragon
exactly, Italy is accused for its non equitable dispensation of justice, where if you plant marjuana you go in prison but if you screw a country nothing happens. Once that finally people that hold a position of power and responsability that at 99% of cases is given because of political hooks and not because of merit is sentenced to pay for their criminal and careless behavior what do we have? 1) Complaints and 2) Judgement of general "idiocy" on a whole people. As if in the just and illuminated USA people don't still burn a black girl running in a park or buy firearms more easily than a beer and then slay like 18 people at the theater pretending to be the bad guy of a comics movie. I haven't gone into details because of the shame that has been brought on this country by you know whom (Mister B.), but the protagonists are the same. These "scientists" have been sentenced to have lied and forged false information that caused the death of over 300 persons, they aren't accused of what CNN think. There is a wire tapping (I hope this is the correct term) where you can hear the former head of the Civil Protection Guido Bertolaso, right hand of Mister B. and probably already known by many of you for his other shameful practices, where he says "Tomorrow's meeting is only a media operation" (to put voices of a possible strong earthquake at rest). The "scientists" of the commission had a lightining meeting and they did not even produce a written report. They have signed it after the earthquake... why? Because it was all fake. Guess what, Bertolaso and those scientists are in those positions because they can be trusted by those in power to do what they want them to do when they ask. And so they did but this time, for the f*cking first time they are to go in prison for this. But don't worry the international community will put enough pressure on our ridiculously prone institutions that the sentence will be changed at the next grade and you can all sigh in relief: scientists across the world will continue to mess with someone's else life without being judged responsible. In the worst case, Science is responsible but not scientists.
As I've read it, they said there was no higher risk in the coming days, not that there was no risk. Geologists think in terms of confidence intervals, not in binary yes / no questions. I find it very hard to imagine a competent geologist ruling out the possibility of an earthquake.
What it seems to me then, is that there was a breakdown in communication. A group of geologists reported that the small swarm of earthquakes prior to the large quake was not evidence of a large coming quake. This was reported as a large quake was not forthcoming.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
- Joined
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Hmmm. At first sight this whole sentencing scientists looks all wrong.
But then, if I understand onedreamer right, it looks as if these were corrupt scientists in the pocket of a corrupt government.
But this part of the issue hasn't filtered through to the BBC apparently - from the OP link.
So there's a further issue here of bad journalism just throwing it's arms in the air and shouting foul at the Italian justice system. Instead of looking to dig out the facts behind the surface report.
But then, if I understand onedreamer right, it looks as if these were corrupt scientists in the pocket of a corrupt government.
But this part of the issue hasn't filtered through to the BBC apparently - from the OP link.
So there's a further issue here of bad journalism just throwing it's arms in the air and shouting foul at the Italian justice system. Instead of looking to dig out the facts behind the surface report.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
I don't really see where your bigotry came into play, but you can thank the Catholic Church for the fact that seismology even exists at all.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Indeed, this is what someone familiar with the case is saying:
I wonder why nobody is reporting it outside of Italy, if it is true.
Lillefix
I'm serious. You can.
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- Dec 1, 2003
- Messages
- 5,699
You know, somehow it wouldn't surprise me of everyone had copied the same article from the Daily Mail or something.
Okay, if that's true, then jail them on corruption, not manslaughter.
edit: well, in the US, if a felony accidently leads to someone's death, you get charged with murder. Perhaps that's akin to what Italy did? Still, the whole case reads very oddly to my eyes.
edit: well, in the US, if a felony accidently leads to someone's death, you get charged with murder. Perhaps that's akin to what Italy did? Still, the whole case reads very oddly to my eyes.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
You can also thank the Catholic Church for the persecution of scientists but who is counting?
