Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
Why are we even learning this person's name? He doesn't deserve to be notorious, much less known. Like John Lennon's assassin.
James Eagan Holmes in OWS? Put up or shut up.
- Thread starter AlpsStranger
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woody60707
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Well it is pretty believable. When an abortion clinic get's blown up, i'm not thinking "must be those crazy democrats."
I guess this picture is pretty much the only thing to link him to the OWS. It does kinda look like him at first.
The op should have at least this picture in the OP so people know what is being talked about. Now the op's post just sounds many other angry left wingers on the internet that's can't believe anyone would think anyone apart of the OWS would do this. "grrr can you believe what those repubs are saying!" "and OWS-er would never do anything wrong*"
"*unless it's cool!"
I guess this picture is pretty much the only thing to link him to the OWS. It does kinda look like him at first.
The op should have at least this picture in the OP so people know what is being talked about. Now the op's post just sounds many other angry left wingers on the internet that's can't believe anyone would think anyone apart of the OWS would do this. "grrr can you believe what those repubs are saying!" "and OWS-er would never do anything wrong*"
"*unless it's cool!"
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AlpsStranger
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I'm more concerned by the present tendency to make up conspiracies on the spot to demonize left wing causes. I've certainly known left leaning people who do the same, but it seems like a right wing thing at the moment. I'll grant that this is probably due to them not holding the presidency and that most crackpot thinking was coming from the other direction when Bush was still in office.
If you really look at it I don't think it looks like him. I'll add the picture to the OP though.
I'm sincerely interested in evidence, but I'm not pretending not to have partisan leanings. OWS wouldn't be discredited unless murder is intrinsic in their philosophy, and I don't anyone is really convinced of that. It is naive, however, not to think it wouldn't damage the movement, even if unreasonably.
woody60707
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I agree. It only looks like him in passing. I'm kinda sorry, I am just kinda taking joy in how some left-ish type people are getting really upset at this. One of my friends told me even if this was true, it's because he was an "agent provocateur". ... I have a few crazy friends.
AlpsStranger
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And that's an example of a left wing conspiracy theory.
That's the essence of conspiracy theory thinking. You simply assume an unnecessarily complex explanation that supports your worldview.
If he turns out to be a big lefty that just means he was a crazy person who happened to be a big lefty. Same thing if he's a righty. The only exception is when the crime is related to the ideology in question. A skinhead beating a Rabbi with a bat would be more likely to be relevant than that same skinhead mugging a random person.
caketastydelish
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1. Even if the killer was in OWS, I doubt his motivation had anything to do with it. He's just a psychopath.
2. I used to really like OWS, but after they've supported Anonymous, I've lost respect for them. Illegally hacking into corporations is not an ethical way of supporting the working class. I'm very leftist myself, but Anonymous is an idiot group. They hide behind "righteous" causes, to justify their illegal hacking.
2. I used to really like OWS, but after they've supported Anonymous, I've lost respect for them. Illegally hacking into corporations is not an ethical way of supporting the working class. I'm very leftist myself, but Anonymous is an idiot group. They hide behind "righteous" causes, to justify their illegal hacking.
AlpsStranger
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They also advocate many things I consider quite foolish. I am not, for example, a huge fan of sweeping direct democracy. I wonder how many of them would enjoy the results in a state like Mississippi? Representation works best even if it isn't perfect.
caketastydelish
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Anonymous gives leftist a bad name.
PlutonianEmpire
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Not every law is worthy of being followed. Just sayin'.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
So, um, how does disrespecting private property rights give leftists a bad name again?
AlpsStranger
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I don't think raising taxes is quite the same as smashing people's stuff. Ayn Rand may disagree, but I don't really care.
caketastydelish
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Because first, you can be a leftist without being a communist.
Secondly (and more importantly) it should be done through the ballot box. An honorable leftist would spread the message of equality to his neighbors, converting as many others as possible so politicians that promote economic equality will have power at the ballot box. That is the legal way to do it in a democracy, and the way I support. That is the way to do it without breaking the law.
Michel Moore is a leftist, but he is a good one. He supports leftist causes by informing others of them, not by breaking the law.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
So how did OWS' support for Anonymous suddenly disrepute them in your eyes? You think they were respecting private property before?
The Bolsheviks (especially Stalin) helped rob banks to fund the party. Is that not a worthwhile violation?
What kind of leftist defends private property in the sense that Anonymous-like activity is considered disreputable? Doesn't sound very leftist to me. You understand that leftism in general entails challenging the status quo, right? That includes the supposed inviolability of private property.
AlpsStranger
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I get what you're driving at, but Moore lost it a while back. I used to like him a tiny bit, but now I wish he would retire. He's not really helping the cause from what I can tell.
caketastydelish
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I don't exactly agree with 100% of the things that come out of his mouth, but that's besides the point. I'm saying he is a law abiding citizen that uses his freedom of speech to promote his values. I prefer that over breaking the law.
woody60707
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And the law allows for that in some cases.
caketastydelish
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1. Stalin has done plenty of things that I don't approve of. Just because he promoted economic equality does not make him a good leader in all ways.
2. I'm personally all for the removal of private property, for the record. Again, this should be done through a democratically elected communist government. It should not be done through hacking, rioting in the streets, or any other illegal means.
It's not about whether private property should exist or not. It's about the right way to fight it, and the wrong way.
I am all for racial equality, but I think Malcolm X was an idiot because of his violent ways. The same could be applied here.
MobBoss
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caketastydelish
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Would you be as fair if he were found to be a tea party member?
Yes. 10char
AlpsStranger
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Would you be as fair if he were found to be a tea party member?
It's hard to do a hypothetical about yourself, but I hope I would be.
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