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JAR02, Always War Emperor

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by jarred!, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Well, that's a good question. On one hand, I'm pushing to beeline for Monarchy and pump out Settlers like nobody's business.
    OTOH, we'll see a great benefit from researching Map Making to ship reinforcements across the straits from our core to "INCAS HERE" on the "Known World South" map.

    I'm guessing it'll take another 1-2 turnsets to conquer far north enough to have a good shipping route for reinforcements. Maybe just one if you focus on setting up a port on the Incan coast, Judminder. In that case, we might do better to beeline for MM; I'd guess at least 35-40T for Monarchy (2T for CB, maybe 5-6 for Myst, then 10-12 for Poly, and 20-25 for Monarchy -- need to double-check research costs!).
     
  2. SuedecivIII

    SuedecivIII Chieftain

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    Monarchy sounds like the better plan, actually. If we switch governments we can start talking about the possibility of taking our golden age.

    I'd like to have our continent mostly clean up before the enemies get pikes.
     
  3. jarred!

    jarred! Chieftain

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    I'm not sure I'm a fan of this long, snaking landmass.
    Monarchy first sounds good. The food bonus should allow us to claim some nice land and get some workers out before we need to try invading another island. It could be cheaper than what Elephantium is suggesting if all of our 'friends' have researched that route already.
     
  4. SuedecivIII

    SuedecivIII Chieftain

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    Yeah as a reminder for anyone who didn't know, agri trait's +1 food in the city center is only tied to being on fresh water while you're in a government with the despotism penalty.

    So we'll get +1 food in pretty much all our cities.
     
  5. Greebley

    Greebley Chieftain Supporter

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    It might not be great for a normal game but for AW it is excellent. I think you will win this.
     
  6. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Yah, we're doing great so far. We're past the early hump where we could get overwhelmed by sheer numbers from multiple nearby civs.
     
  7. Judminder

    Judminder Chieftain

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    Sorry folks this is going to require a really quick response as I want to get going on this:
    Currently CB is due in 3 at 90% Science and net loss -4
    I would usually toggle the slider to give us (in this case) CB due in 3 at 20% Sci and net gain of +16.

    If it is due in 3 at 90% then I don't see why it would be due any quicker next turn if we leave it at 90% (?). ie I don't see why I shouldn't toggle the slider.

    @Elephantium has quoted CB due in 2T (?)

    You've probably got about 30mins to get back to me. As @tjs282 has set it at 90% I'll leave it (and trust in greater exp) there as default and hope we get improved speed....
     
  8. jarred!

    jarred! Chieftain

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    Tjs' log says due in 3T, 2T must have been an error.
     
  9. Judminder

    Judminder Chieftain

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    So really there should be no problem with me toggling the slider to maximise cash rather than 'hope' for the 1 turn improvement (?)
     
  10. jarred!

    jarred! Chieftain

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    From my house, that seems to be the case. Unless we increase our gross commerce then we can't speed up research.

    EDIT: TJS started reasearching on the IBT before his turn 9. We're 4-turning this tech, that's why we can't get it in 2T.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  11. Judminder

    Judminder Chieftain

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    Thanks for the speedy replies -> I will toggle to max cash.
     
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  12. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

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    I just saw your post, so this is probably too late but...

    The general rule-of thumb (that I was following) is to always research at the highest SCI% that you can afford (in this case, 90%), and then drop SCI% to 0-10% on the last turn (maybe finishing off the tech with a lone Geek). Due to rounding errors in commerce-conversion per town, this tactic usually nets more cash in total than running SCI% at 'just enough' to 4-turn the tech.

    So although your way will bring in ~48 g, my way might have given us more (but I would have to play it out on my machine to find out which of us is 'right'!).

    Doesn't really matter either way, though since — at least according to Tusker and Greebley :worship: — we've got this game sewn up already! ;)
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  13. Judminder

    Judminder Chieftain

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    Is there a strong preference on where to start settling ex-Japan? We are on turn 9 of my set and we have a settler in the 'hood that could found next turn. Or it could head straight over towards the fertile cattle-lands to the East. Will save after this turn and await thoughts prior to my final turn.

    upload_2019-5-22_12-12-21.png
     
  14. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

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    Any towns we found in former Japan are going to end up so far from our core in terms of absolute map distance, that they will really only be useful for food (and unit-support), rather than shields/commerce. Once we've captured Tabriz and Ulanbataar (the next player should make sure Tabriz is at Pop2 before attacking!), both those towns will have lower rank-/distance-corruption than any towns in the southern area!

    And apart from the tiles near food-bonuses, I don't see much point in founding anywhere on the southern Plains at present, since without Harbours, such towns will top out at Pop3 (under Despotism; Pop4 under Monarchy/Republic) — but will still need defending (especially if/when the AI-Civs start invading with Swords/ Horses).
    Assuming that Settler came from Teo, it's already walked for 4T (costing maintenance all the while?): Would founding adjusted-OrangeDot have been preferable, from a commerce/corruption point of view...?

    So rather than walking any further (at least 1T more to reach the Game-Forest, 2T more to reach a Cow), I would suggest planting where it is: with the 2 Sugar-Plains, that town will top out at Pop5 (under Monarchy). I'd set it to building further Workers/Settlers, freeing our core to produce primarily weapons (now that Teo has more mined tiles available, it could maybe sell its Gran and put up a Rax instead?).

    The next Settler (built from Sugar-Town?) could go and found near the Cows (maybe the Plains 2N of the 3/4 Horseman in your screenie; or Town2 on my earlier dotmap allowing 3 towns to [eventually] share all those Cows+Game), and that town(s) could also then be set to slow-building Workers/ Settlers.

    If necessary, we could also chop the nearby Forest(s) into Grans (but no other buildings).
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  15. jarred!

    jarred! Chieftain

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    Tech costs:
    3rd civ costs (in beakers):
    CB-30
    Myst-60
    Poly-180
    Monarchy-360

    2nd civ costs:
    Myst-90
    Poly-270
    Monarchy-540

    1st civ costs:
    Myst-120
    Poly-360
    Monarchy-720

    At 90% SCI, we were making about 25 beakers/turn, which means we could research CB in 2T, but there's a lower limit of 4T research. For the first turn we put 25bpt to CB, and then on the second turn (25/0.9~28, then we lose ~4gpt due to settler, 24*0.3~7bpt) we are able to produce enough beakers to finish CB, so we could lower the SCI to 0, keeping the specialist, to finish research in another 2T. If we keep research at 90% for 3T, then lower to 0%, we'd be over-spending by over 40 beakers. Later in the game, when we usually reach the 4T limit (generally in the early game I beeline to Philo and sell off my expensive techs for the cheap ones and never encounter 4T research in the Ancient times) we're able to just barely hit 4T (maybe getting 25% overflow), and have banks and markets which amplify tax revenue, researching at max and then dropping the slider on the last turn allows for higher income multipliers.
     
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  16. Judminder

    Judminder Chieftain

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    @tjs282, I did seriously think about what to do with that settler and decided that it would be better to get things moving down in ex-Japan as further settler would not be far behind. There is a settler set to move into position next turn for the dotmap city. Although the city is part of our core, it will be some time before it is up to much due to all of the clearing that needs doing, and no free workers to do it.

    Turn log:
    Turn 0 (550BC): Science->20%, CB in 3, +16GPT, 97gold, Not sure why Osaka is building a settler as there is no growth in the city (?)
    IBT
    Teno Horse -> Settler
    Tlatelolco Settler -> Spear
    Barb Horse appears East of Tex bananas
    Turn 1 (530BC): PRotect slaves, Calixtlahuaca founded on orange / green dot, 2xArchers north to the wheat tile SE of Vilcas, 113 gold, +17GPT, CB in2
    IBT
    Archers both killed SE of vilcas, 2 archers leave Vilcas to the South
    Turn 2 (50BC): Curragh ->Settler, Vilcas Falls and we mop up a stray archer, Kill barb horse in core, New Curragh sets off South, 138gold, +18GPT, CB in 1
    IBT
    Incan Archer heading S towards Edo, CB->Mysticism, Forbidden Palace pop-up, Incas (Cuzco) build ToA
    Turn 3 (490BC): Horse kills Incan Archer, move units around; 157gold, 0GPT, Mysticism in 4
    IBT
    Kyoto Worker -> worker, Texcoco Horse -> Settler, Vilcas resistance ended
    Turn 4 (470BC): Curraghs exploring, workers (net)working, vHorse heading South, vArcher heads N from Vilcas to explore; 157G, +3GPT, Myst in 3
    IBT Barb warrior appears S of cattle, Tenoch Settler -> Settler, Tlateloco Spear ->Horse
    Turn 5 (450BC): Archer discovers a fork in the road N of Vilcas, Tenoch Settler heads South, Tlacelolco Spear -> Calix (fortify), 3xHorsemen head N from Vilcas, move worker away from barb warrior
    IBT (nada)
    Turn 6 (430BC): Explorers discover Tabriz (Mongol), Horse kills Southern barb warrior, 160G, +4GPT, Myst in 1
    IBT
    Myst -> Poly, Byzantines (Constantinople) build GL
    Turn 7 (410BC): Southern horse disperses barb camp, 189G, -4GPT, Poly in 10
    IBT
    Tlaxcala Warrior -> Cat
    Turn 8 (390BC): Our mountain horses attack Tabriz. Archer bombard. We win 1, lose 1 and I think one retreat, but not sure how because it started 2 tiles away. Anyway, we still have 2/3 horses. The archer comes down to 'defend' the horses. 185G, -4GPT, Poly in 9
    IBT
    Mongol archer dies whilst red-lining our archer. The stack survives. Tenoch Settler -> horse
    Turn 9 (370BC): Our archer and 2 horses retreat to the mountains to heal their wounds. Another E Archer starts the short trek N from Vilcas. Hired entertainer Vilcas
    Poly in 8, Gold? , ? GPT
    IBT Teotihuacan Settler -> Cat
    Turn 10 (350BC): Xochicalco founded, move units, healing units in mountains.

    Handover: Settler 1 away from orange / green dot. Another settler started the Southern Tramp (the Inca trail?). It looks likely we'll be able to set up that port across the water from our core to ship units more quickly.
     

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  17. jarred!

    jarred! Chieftain

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    Osaka is being settler disbanded. Nice progress! We seem to be plugging along nicely.
     
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  18. Judminder

    Judminder Chieftain

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    Yes, but it can't build a settler unless it is size 2 (I'm now doubting myself...) and there is no surplus food to get to size 2
     
  19. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

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    Settler-disbandment can also be done at Pop1. Yes, I was surprised too.
    This should be avoided, IMHO.

    Tenoch is our only completely uncorrupted city, and has access to all the Wines, so it should be kept as large as possible for as much time as possible, to maximise its shield/commerce-output. And since it has a Rax but no Gran, it should be building primarily mil-units, and ideally only start building a new Settler at around Pop6.5 (i.e. when additional food-harvest at +2 FPT will not result in further growth).

    I mean sure, if disease hits Teo and causes it to drop to a low pop (as happened on my set), then fitting in a Settler from a Rax-town, while Teo recovers, makes sense. But otherwise, towns should preferentially build what they've been 'designed' to build.
     
  20. Judminder

    Judminder Chieftain

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    I should also qualify that the Byzantines have built the great lighthouse and not the great library! (GL)
     

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