Jena 6

[skadistic]

Ah so now we go into regiments in the army. I'd say the 45th had some of the finest leadership in the form of Shaw. These intergrated regiments with the " equal equipment " thing is just plain . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. . imho. The majority of blacks in the south were treated like animals, lived in pens and were slaves for god sakes. To make such a comparison escapes all bounds of reality in a weak attempt to make a point. BTW... little side note, the winning side's government freed all of the slaves so your point is really, really off base on that one.

Really you should read up on the war. And the south as a whole. You characterization of the majority of blacks being treated as animals is wrong. In you humble opinion that the blacks weren't treated equally is just that an opinion. Try getting around to the facts. Shaw was great. So what. It doesn't change the fact that there was an ill equipped segregated regiment in the north and integration in the south. And heres a kicker the North didn't actually free the slaves. In fact they never outlawed the owning of slaves in the north either. The proclamation only freed slave in states still rebelling.

Treating there black soldiers worse than the south did?

Whats funny is you lack of knowledge about the facts of the war and the south.

99% of the black population in the south during the conflict were slaves. I am sure the black southern " soldiers " were treated wonderfuly by there " overseers " I mean Officers.

Are you sure about that? I guess the other 1% were slave owners then. You did know that there were blacks who owned slaves in the south right? What about all the free blacks?

If you want to talk about great treatment by white officers on black soldiers look at the segregated north.


You really should read about the war and not just the sanitized propaganda or what wiki tells you.

facts:
Blacks owned slaves too.
There were white slaves.
North had segregated black soldiers south didn't.
There were free blacks who willingly fought for the south.
The Emancipation Proclamation only freed southern slaves not northern ones.
There were riots in the New York against the war freeing the slaves.
Only 6% of southern whites owned slaves.
And the south freed all the slaves before the end of the war not the north.


Yes there is racism all over. But it seams when it's in "the deep south" its used to prove that the south is all racist. Like it matters where it happens.

 

[angrybellsprout]

Don't forget that in places such as Illonis it was illegal for blacks to live there.

 

[QuoVadisNation]

I liked the quote by Jesse Jackson saying that Jena is the start of the 21st century's civil rights movement. What rights are there left to fight for? This is a case of the media making a small issue into a big one. Obviously the white students should have been expelled from school...but anytime 6 people beat one person until they are unconscious i would call it attempted murder.

I hate to say it, but many historians and "African-American historians" would argue that the civil rights movement of the 1960's effectively failed. On one hand, it provided middle-class and upper-class Blacks the power of social mobility finally and acceptance into "white-society" (which is what they actually wanted). On the other hand, the Civil Rights movement failed when it came to providing what lower-class Blacks wanted - equality (equal treatment of Black Culture alongside White Culture). The Civil Rights movement can be said to allow integration finally, and brought an end to most of discrimination simlpy on the grounds of skin color (for Blacks, anyway..), but there still is a great deal of inequalities, discrimination, and perception that "this particular (now mostly associated with Urban) culture" is of the inferior type. I believe that is the "Civil Rights" that Al Sharpton may have been refering too. Although I don't think Good ol' Al is going to win a civil rights movement any time soon... to win a civil rights movement in the de facto sense, you need allies; and lots of em'.

 

[Mango]

Don't turn this thread into a North vs. South arguement. None of you here can take credit for anything the North did and none of you here can take blame for what the South did. There is no reason that anyone from the North today should feel superior in regard to someone from the South because their ancestors didn't own slaves or because their ancestors won the Civil War. That's just ridiculous. You didn't fight and no one else you knew fought and nobody alive has ever been a legal slave in the United States of America. It's over. I know the internet is SERIOUS BUSINESS but save the North/South baiting for another thread.

 

[woody60707]

I hate to say it, but many historians and "African-American historians" would argue that the civil rights movement of the 1960's effectively failed. On one hand, it provided middle-class and upper-class Blacks the power of social mobility finally and acceptance into "white-society" (which is what they actually wanted). On the other hand, the Civil Rights movement failed when it came to providing what lower-class Blacks wanted - equality (equal treatment of Black Culture alongside White Culture). The Civil Rights movement can be said to allow integration finally, and brought an end to most of discrimination simlpy on the grounds of skin color (for Blacks, anyway..), but there still is a great deal of inequalities, discrimination, and perception that "this particular (now mostly associated with Urban) culture" is of the inferior type. I believe that is the "Civil Rights" that Al Sharpton may have been refering too. Although I don't think Good ol' Al is going to win a civil rights movement any time soon... to win a civil rights movement in the de facto sense, you need allies; and lots of em'.

So it sounds like all the goods points of the 1960's civil rights won, and all the bad points failed.

 

[QuoVadisNation]

So it sounds like all the goods points of the 1960's civil rights won, and all the bad points failed.

Sure, if you want to look at it that way. But, that decision certainly wasn't without its consequences... (see: Jena 6)

 

[George2816]

If it was 6 white students that "almost" killed a black student Jeese jackson would of ask for the death penalty.

Don't you remember about a gang of 6 or so black people that raped and murdered a couple in tenn?? He wanted them to get away with murder and he called the DA a racists. I'm sorry but the world is better without jeese jackson and his friends

 

[angrybellsprout]

Remember when Jackson said that he'd pay off the girl in the Duke rape case, no matter if she was proven to be a liar or not?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1091599/

 

[mrt144]

Take for example the kid who took the shotgun away from the other kid. Not a wise move. A far smarter move would have been to simply go back inside and just call the police and let them handle it. If he had done that, he wouldnt have been charged for stealing the firearm. Plus, in a racially charged situation like this, how can you tell who is telling the truth if you havent seen it with your own eyes? Answer: you cant. However, the only piece of hard evidence is the gun, which was indeed taken.

People make stupid decisions when emotional. Keeping the gun after taking it was stupid. They should have just called the cops to begin with and none of that would have happened.

I can't believe how much you make my head hurt. You're the same person, the exact same person that believes people have a right to defend themselves. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS KID DID! HE WAS BEING THREATENED WITH A GUN AND HE TOOK IT! HE SHOULD BE A HERO FOR DEFENDING HIMSELF!

Also I am somewhat disappointed that I knew before I opened the thread where you would stand on the issue. But I didnt know how freaking ridiculous your stance would be.

If the kid had shot the other kid, in plausible self defense you would be compelled to defend him unless you believe that people dont have the right to use lethal force against a perceived threat of equal strength.

 

[mrt144]

the mere appearance of prominent race baiters doesnt mean that their position is wrong automatically. After hearing about the case, I feel this way about it;

Noose Making White kids. Expulsion. The kids just have to realize that you can't make a "joke" like this without it causing problems and posing a threat to other students, either direct, implied, or casually.

Battering Black Kids. Expulsion. Community Service. Probation. Attacking a person is wrong no matter the circumstance that caused it. GEtting kicked out of school is punishment harsh enough and will impact their future, but they should also do something to make the community a better place while they arent in school.

Kid that took away gun from potential attacker. Award. Honorary shotgun and/or plaque. Seriously, anyone that protects themselves in such a total and profound way is awesome. I can not believe that the potential victim in any case would be charged with a crime of theft in the defense of themselves.

Prosecutor. Sanctions. This guy is a bonehead with a hard on for over-reaching punishment that doesnt fit the crime.

 

[Patroklos]

So according to you who started the fight in the convenience store in the first place?

Confronted with 6 to 1 odds with several convicted of assault previously why is it a problem the white kid went for a gun?

After disarming the white kid and still have 6 to 1 odds why did your "hero" beat the defenseless white kid unconscious?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What really bothers me, of course, is that none of the protesters are saying the black kids are innocent. They seem to be saying, "they may have beaten someone but that's not important, justice and equality means not punishing them."

I mean, the nooses were a bad thing but we can't legislate morality, we have free speech. Everything else, we can punish on the basis of what it was, not who did it.

 

[MobBoss]

I can't believe how much you make my head hurt. You're the same person, the exact same person that believes people have a right to defend themselves. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS KID DID! HE WAS BEING THREATENED WITH A GUN AND HE TOOK IT! HE SHOULD BE A HERO FOR DEFENDING HIMSELF!

And if that was all he had done, that would have been great. You dont defend yourself....and then not tell the police of what happened. You dont leave the scene of a crime with the evidence in hand.

Thats just stupid.

Plus, how do you know what the truth is in the situation? Where you there? How do you know the kid who took the shotgun was defending himself? Perhaps the white kid was defending HIMSELF, and the black kid took the gun away?

The point is, which totally flew over your head, in any criminal situation like that, the people involved have a duty to call the police and let them handle it and clean it up. If I get involved in a traffic accident, do I get in the other guys car and drive it away and think alls good in the world? Please.

Also I am somewhat disappointed that I knew before I opened the thread where you would stand on the issue. But I didnt know how freaking ridiculous your stance would be.

Calling for the police to be involvded to handle the situation is not freaking ridiculous. You taking one side over the other with little or no information is what is freaking ridiculous.

If the kid had shot the other kid, in plausible self defense you would be compelled to defend him unless you believe that people dont have the right to use lethal force against a perceived threat of equal strength.

Again, I am not defending anyone since I dont have enough reliable information to know which side was justified in what it did - but from a police standpoint, you have a kid who did indeed wrongfully remove evidence from a crime scene and it was someone elses property. That the only bit of real and hard evidence we have to go on.

How can you say the kid was right to take the gun and not turn it over to the police? Are you really that naive in how things work?

 

[MobBoss]

Noose Making White kids. Expulsion. The kids just have to realize that you can't make a "joke" like this without it causing problems and posing a threat to other students, either direct, implied, or casually.

Battering Black Kids. Expulsion. Community Service. Probation. Attacking a person is wrong no matter the circumstance that caused it. GEtting kicked out of school is punishment harsh enough and will impact their future, but they should also do something to make the community a better place while they arent in school.

Where you fail is in assuming that the two crimes are any where near equal. They arent. Assault and battery is a criminal offense, and merely getting kicked out of school isnt punishment enough for beating a kid senseless. Apparently, hanging a noose in a tree isnt a crime in LA, but I do agree the kids should probably have been expelled.

Kid that took away gun from potential attacker. Award. Honorary shotgun and/or plaque. Seriously, anyone that protects themselves in such a total and profound way is awesome.

Again, do you think you know all the facts surrounding this? How do you know this occurred the way you think it did?

I can not believe that the potential victim in any case would be charged with a crime of theft in the defense of themselves.

Because after you defend yourself YOU CALL THE POLICE TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. This kid didnt and just took the shotgun. Bad (and illegal) move.

 

[angrybellsprout]

You fail to understand that thought crimes are quite punishable in the United States.

 

[mrt144]

you know why he didnt turn the gun over or report it? cause the town is racist! i dont see how you are missing that (you dont think the fact that the schoolboard overruled the original punishment for white students, or the fact that there was an all white jury in the cases was racist, i think it shows the state of mind of the town). the prosecutor went for the charges he did not because the kids deserve that punishment but because he wanted to make an example. and making an example over a fight where the person was fine hours later is either stupid, racist or both. if the kid didnt trust the cops to treat them fairly why would they contact them. i guess you have the privlidge of being white, ex-military, pro authority types and dont know what it feels like to mistrust white authority types because they have abused that authority towards you.

its also so funny how dichotomous you and others are being. i think the black kids committed a crime. i dont think they should have been charged with attempted murder and i feel the reason was zeal mixed institutional racism.
and speaking of charges why wasnt the kid with the shotgun charged with brandishing a weapon? shouldnt he called the cops instead of getting a shotgun?

regardless its a blast to see the expected people defending the expected people and mobboss with his predeictable 'we dont know everything so lets trust authority figures' song and dance. i dont think racism is everywhere but i also dont bury my head to the existence of it.

the black kids should have been expelled, assigned to community service, and put on probation until adulthood. that is punishment that allows them to right themselves, but also says 'dont even think about causing another situation like this again' and provides the community a benefit.

 

[Stewbert 08]

I can't believe how much you make my head hurt. You're the same person, the exact same person that believes people have a right to defend themselves. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS KID DID! HE WAS BEING THREATENED WITH A GUN AND HE TOOK IT! HE SHOULD BE A HERO FOR DEFENDING HIMSELF!

Like I said, only in the South can a white guy be threatening a black guy with a shotgun, the black guy wrestles it away from him and they charge him with theft of a weapon.

If a black guy had pointed a glock at a white guy, and the white guy took it away and SHOT HIM DEAD WITH IT, a Southern jury would have called it self defense and so would a lot of people on this forum.

Can I get a "**** the South"?

Moderator Action: No, you can't. Warned for inappropriate language - stop using a * to evade the autocensor.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[angrybellsprout]

Only in the South do you actually find blacks.

 

[JollyRoger]

The only reason my gun toting stepdad came around to a state's right to require a license to carry was based on his assumption that whites would be less likely denied a license than others. He has a selective view of the "shall not be infringed" clause of the 2nd Amendment that changes depending on who is most likely to be infringed.

 

[MobBoss]

you know why he didnt turn the gun over or report it? cause the town is racist!

Thank you Reverend Sharpton.

I mean really. Is that the best you can do? Excuse crime behind a label of racism? Thats beyond lame. And in that case, he should have just left the shotgun there then and not taken it at all. Its not like the kid was in any shape to use it after they were done with him.

i dont see how you are missing that (you dont think the fact that the schoolboard overruled the original punishment for white students, or the fact that there was an all white jury in the cases was racist, i think it shows the state of mind of the town).

We have all white jurys in every state in the union sometimes...does it mean all towns everywhere are racist?

I am sorry, but you need some more hard evidence than that.

the prosecutor went for the charges he did not because the kids deserve that punishment but because he wanted to make an example. and making an example over a fight where the person was fine hours later is either stupid, racist or both.

You do realize that the main kid still being held has a criminal record right? That this isnt exactly his first go around with the law. Right? Does the fact that he has a criminal record impact your thinking on this at all? Or do you think its all just racism?

if the kid didnt trust the cops to treat them fairly why would they contact them.

Because its still the lawful and correct thing to do regardless. Also, they had a choice....they could have just walked away from the entire thing couldnt they? Hell yes they could. But they didnt.

i guess you have the privlidge of being white, ex-military, pro authority types and dont know what it feels like to mistrust white authority types because they have abused that authority towards you.

I personally havent seen any evidence that the police in that town are all white. Do you know this for a fact? Or are you simply assuming this?

Btw, I am not ex-military...I am still in service. Your welcome.

its also so funny how ichotomous you and others are being. i think the black kids committed a crime. i dont think they should have been charged with attempted murder and i feel the reason was zeal mixed institutional racism.
and speaking of charges why wasnt the kid with the shotgun charged with brandishing a weapon? shouldnt he called the cops instead of getting a shotgun?

Again, I dont think you nor I know enough of the real facts to make any determination of that. If you believe the story that he pulled the weapon first, then you would be correct....however, I got a funny feeling that it may not have played out exactly the way the Revs. Al and Jesse claim.

regardless its a blast to see the expected people defending the expected people and mobboss with his predeictable 'we dont know everything so lets trust authority figures' song and dance. i dont think racism is everywhere but i also dont bury my head to the existence of it.

You fail at the thread as you either (a) didnt read my earlier comments or (b) didnt comprehend them. I stated right off the bat in this thread saying that racism does exist and always will exist to some degree. Big deal - its a fact of life. But you dont react to it by commiting assault and battery. Two wrongs dont make a situation right.