JJ01-Moving up to Monarch

TomPW said:
I'm fine with standard and continents.....
I'm with you on this. Probably my favorite map.

TomPW said:
I'd like to make a shout for Asoka .....
I too think that organised is going to be a great assistance to us with the added distance maintenance and city number costs. For the other trait, I was leaning towards creative to pop borders without the need for Obelisks. Trouble is there isn't anyone with those two... If I have to consider another... maybe philosophical. We can start popping loads of GP's and use them to give us techs.

That means I would lean towards Mao.
 
Mao is good fun to play - and by no means is he any slouch if you want a religion - something I feel would be useful to us here, for the extra happiness. If we chop stonehenge or the oracle we'd have a great prophet to snag Theology or CoL (perhaps even useing the oracle for this and the prophet for a shrine).

The only hesitation I'd have about him is that the UU isn't the greatest. It does collateral damage, which can be very useful but I don't think the Cho-ku-nu stands up to the fast worker of India. On the other hand maybe I am overestimating the importance of the UU to our game.

I think it would be a good idea if we could just make a short post about our styles of play, so we all know each other a little, and what to expect.

Hi, I'm Tom - and I'm a recovering build/wonder aholic. Since I kicked the habbit I've been able to beat Prince comfortably, and since i allowed myself the odd wonder here and there if it was useful to me - I'm almost at Monarch level. I do have a tendancy to over prepare for wars, but I've stopped putting a barracks in my Oxford city, or libraries in the mining towns.

EDIT: After thinking a little more about the leader, I do not think that founding a religion would be THAT much of a big deal. We will need a large millitary on Monarch, and Heriditary Rule could be our best friend. The shrine income and diplomatic muscle would still be nice though.

EDIT TWO: I do still favour Asoka however, because the creative trait starts to show its worth on the higher levels as well, as anarchy starts to take longer - and I feel the flexability that a revolution every five turns would offer would help us all out here. We are trying to make the jump, so we will most likely make mistakes. Having to burn turns to remedy those could be very costly.

Tom
 
To be honest, I've never really used the Cho-ko-nu UU much. It should be able to hold it's own against other units around the same era like macemen as it has +50% v Melee and 2 first strikes.

I too am a reformed builder. I used to just click whatever building was recommended by Sid which meant I built everything in everytown sometimes. This together with automated workers let me get up to about noble. When I finally started to think about what I was building I found I would get a much better military and all of a sudden I discovered war. A bit of that for a while and slowly improving my city management and no automated workers and I can now comfortably beat Prince most times.

Monarch has just got me though. I research like mad and try to trade, but just cannot keep up. I need to learn even more MM and especially building the right things around cities. I am also finding that you do need to pick cities to be GP farms, production, finance etc.
 
Couple of comments on the questions raised:

To me, the main utility of founding a religion is the shrine income. That said, you can nearly always found either Confucianism or Taoism and I generally shoot for CoL early to aid expansion. The organized civic (Asoka or Mao) will aid this even more.

My play style is to expand as much as possible, peacefully or otherwise, while not getting too far behind in tech and leading up to a space race victory (have also gotten a diplomatic victory on Monarch). I have found it impossible to maintain a significant tech lead in Monarch. Specialize cities as much as possible but I usually find it helpful to have a granary and a courthouse in every city and markets frequently make it in there to give happiness. It all depends on the leader building discounts too. I tend to heavily favor coastal cities, maybe to the detriment of my overall strategy sometimes.

One item that I didn't see on Mutineer's list is the necessity of checking the Foreign Advisor screen pretty much every turn to see what tech and resource deals are available and keeping tabs on diplomatic relations. Tech and resource trade need to be micromanaged, as well as which city tiles are worked and specialists used.

About Archipelago maps: they can actually be to the human advantage with the use of certain strategies. For example, rapidly expand to choke points, move quickly to get colossus and/or Great Lighthouse wonders, get Astronomy earlier rather than later, focus military on naval resources, etc. I'm not saying we should play the Archipelago map, just that it doesn't seem to be any harder (and maybe in some ways easier) than continents.
 
I am flattered by you copying what I sad.
Especially with my broken English, I am not native English speaker.

If you want to read more about different micro and macromanagment thinks I would advice you to look at this threads.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163415
There some mine micromanagment and macro desicion discussion and Ruff Hi give a good explanation of some of micromanagment trick that could be used.

Second tread is interesting as me and other members of the team has very different opinions about how good our start or place is and what cource of action take.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=164827

In addition I do not believe I ever see on this boards a strategy I am trying to implement there.

I was to add that you will found me advising very different strategy from each other in this treads. That is because in CIV4 Many strategies are valible and trick is to choise one which is rigth for situation.

IN first tread I am agrue to beeline to Monarchy when in second to beeline to Dramma. In first I am in favor of early war, IN second I do not want any wars for some times yet.

Bottom line, I would advice to keep all options open and do not get fixed to sertan strategy befor game started.
 
Current Settings:
Continents
Standard Size
Normal Game Speed
Climate?
Sea Level?

Now if everyone could just give me one vote for either Asoka or Mao, I could roll the start. It would also be nice to get an opinion on climate and sea level, but if no one says anything I will just make it temperate and medium. It sounds like most people are advocating religion, but we have to see the start before making any real strategic decisions.

I mainly win space race and diplomatic victories, as I never particularly aim to war and when I do I usually end up voting myself through the UN before winning. However, I do have a fair knowledge of war and don't mind going to war. I can easily keep up on tech in Prince, but on Monarch I always have a hard time getting my economy going aftertheearly expansion phase. The few times I have caught up have required a huge amount of trading. I also need more practice on dealing with barbarians on Monarch. I just never seem to have the time to build extra fogbusting warriors while expanding.

Mutineer, I copied your post because I agreed that the things you mentioned seemed key to being successful on Monarch. I also noticed that i was not doing some things you mentioned.
 
jeejeep, i have decided not to participate, only lurk, but i wish you and the other participants good luck
 
Jeejeep - my vote is for Asoka.

Autocon - that's too bad. Good that you are still lurking, hopefully you'll spot mistakes we'd otherwise have missed!

Tom
 
I would like to try this if you are looking for a replacement player. I have won all victory types on Prince, but to be honest I find Monarch to be quite a bit tougher.
 
I have not tried Asoka yet, so that would be my vote.
 
Wonderful. I was about to head off to bed - but I'm itching to see the start, so I'll wait up.
 
Wow. WOW. Tough decisions - yes. But what a start. Marble on hand, in fact IN the fat cross if we settle in the place. FPs, and enough forests to chop any early wonder we wanted. A happiness lux IN the fat cross if we settle in the place AND an instant goody hut if we do so.

I would see out capital as an early production powerhouse gradually becoming the most academic city on the planet. We've got enough hills to make early production very feasable indeed. There's a strong chance it might not stand up to some of the more advanced cities that are really in the hillside, but its going to be no slough. We've got 4 floods, perfect for cottaging, and a lot of grassland once we've chopped the forests. Grassland too is great for commerce because cottages there pay for their own food, while still providing the boost (2 food per grassland tile). We can rely on the floodplanes to keep us growing and using more and more of the grassland squares.

We could use marble for a shot at the oracle - and perhaps more importantly the key wonder to keep up with the tech race, The Great Library. This wonder has been the cornerstone of many a tech comback, but also acts as a double edged sword in that it tends to produce a quite horrific number of great scientists. Of course this can be useful, with many adadamies around the empire always a good thing, but it tends to dilute the number of other GPs we get - and thus it damages our golden age potential.

If we were to heavily cottage the area around Delhi - an eventual (or early with Pyramids) switch to Universal Sufferage would blow the production out of the water overnight.

If we worked all the FP tiles, we would have enough food to keep on growing as long as the 'new citizens' are put to work on grassland cottages, and eventually stop growing with the hills mined for that little bit of production, and the quarry on the marble bringing in an anvil (?)

Two hills, an anvil, and a city founded hill don't give the greatest production in the world, but they would let Delhi hold its own. In the early stages, there are enough trees around to slingshot us to a few quick settlers, the workers to get the cities blooming, and perhaps even a wonder or two.

Having over expanded myself many times, I would be VERY wary of doing so, but I belive three or four cities would still be very possible, and would give us several places to produce our early millitary to fogbust and fortify our boarders.

All this from settling in the spot. Although we are not on the coast, we have fresh water - and there is a fish resource not too far south, that could be a target for our first coastal city.

By moving the warrior one tile north-east we'll get a clearer idea of what lies past those flood plains. Unfortunely I think it might be desert - thats what it looks like from the hills, forcing us to perhaps hug the coast. However, just imagine if there was gold.... TWO happiness resources near our capital, and the potential to chop ourway to any early wonder we wanted...

I think we may well have been given the best start on the planet in this game, if we haven't been, then any AI with a better start is sickeningly lucky.

Can you imagine if we found copper in those hills...

Delhi has the potential to be the jewell of not only our empire, but of the world. And I'm sure there are better alternatives to the spot that I haven't seen yet...

Tom
 
I have no problem being outvoted. I will try and put alternatives up throughout the game so that we can discuss the merits better. I also like the reasoning for Asoka.

I'll be honest and say that I think one of my weaknesses that gives me a problem in monarch is the ability to see what can become of a city location. I just don't go into enough analysis of what it all means.

Looks like a good capital when bureaucracy come in. We will need to cottage those floodplains and get the cottages working as quickly as possible to get that commerce going. The sea tiles are going to be low food tiles as we are not on the coast and cannot build the lighthouse.

The marble will allow us to choose to build a few wonders, starting with the Oracle and Great Library and later the Taj Mahal and Hagia Sophia. Production will be good with the hills and marble quarry. The marble quarry will also give 2 commerce i think.

At the moment the forests are in excess of the floodplains for health benefits and should be sparingly chopped. We will need to find some more health benefits before we over chop.

Agree with Tom on most points. Settle on the spot and we will have a great starting city.
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Does anybody else here:

a) Use MSN
and b) Think it might be useful just for general back and forth chat to have each other's contact details?
 
Great post Tom. However, I've thought of something that might make it even better. As far as I have heard every capital is guaranteed a food resource in the fat cross. I am not sure if this is true but if so this really is going to be a commerce/GP city in the mid/endgame.
 
If that is right - then its on our west coast. The tile two north looks like floodplains - which actually gives us FIVE!!!:goodjob: I hadn't considered that tile before, but peering into the fog makes it appear that way. I can't be certain however, as I don't have blue marble. I can't see any reason that the coastal tile won't have some food resource - which not only gives another whopping bonus to the already fairly food rich Delhi, but will also let us chop more of those forests, as Kikinit had pointed out, we would have taken a health hit. I hadn't thought of that before.

I'm personally in favour of pushing us thorugh the unhealthness wall, as long as we have the floodplain food to make up for it, and it gets us a wonder, or a slightly quicker settler. Remember that we can nab that fish to the south with our second city if we wanted. Mr Yuk faces appear more around floodplains though, each one gives -0.4 health. Remember though, as long as we stay in the place, we've got a river for the fresh water bonus!

Tom
 
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