JJ03-Monarch, Just Win

skip untill sunday the 14th of august (or whatever)
 
Krockel?? You still with us??
 
Yes I am. Sorry about the delay. We have had an awful weather here in Sweden for the last couple of days. Thunderstorms have minimized my computer time, got a lot of studying done though. :)

I played 10 turns and enjoyed it. I think we have made some real progress in this game. Being isolated from the beginning is hard and to get all the other AI:s on one big continent is even harder.

On my first turn I signed peace with Qin. He gave us 1000 gold for that, gold that were mostly used for upgrades of troops. I think we shall go to war with him again, but I thought we need more troops for that.

When War Weariness got away I could build some infrastructure, coliseums and jails to prevent further unhappiness. But mainly production was military, panzers, infantry and cannons.

For research we now know Combustion and Communism. I chose the later for research for opportunity to build spies and to run state property.

I settled a new city, Stuttgart 1 south of the razed Chinese one. I bought a heather there to get more tiles, it's a decent site already though.

Oh, and Saladin came around and asked for defensive pact, I regret him on that since I believe we will attack Qin again.

Save
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/JJ03_AD-1826.Civ4SavedGame
 
Roster:

jeejeep - *UP*
Lobsterboy - on deck
ngraner42
Krockel - just played

dutchfire - OOP until 14.8
 
Is Space the only chance for victory now? Is Diplo out of the question? Our relations with Saladin should be pretty good if he is offering a DP. Who is in position to get nominated for General Secretay of the UN?
 
Got it, can probably play this afternoon/tonight. From when I last played, most civs were none too pleased with us, so I suspect space may be the only option.
 
I think we can have a shoot at domination. Panzers are quite good and we have some cities which can pump out quite a lot of them pretty fast.

I think Diplomatic will be hard. Cause Lizzy and Huayna is more likely to vote for Saladin then on us.

Space is doable, but Saladin has an equal shoot at it.
 
Here's what it looks like to me after looking at the save.

IMO, we need to go to war with Saladin, not Qin. Qin is about level in tech with us, and we should be able to win a space race with him peacefully. Saladin, on the other hand, is about five techs ahead of us and has already completed the Apollo Program and 4 SS Casings. There is no way we can catch up to him peacefully.

However, war could also be difficult. At the moment we have about 7 infantry, 7 panzers, and two cannons that are on or en route to Saladin's continent. That is not enough, especially the cannons. We need at least 4 more of those and, for some reason, aren't building any. Besides that, it could be difficult to kill or cripple Saladin while at the same time building SS parts back home.

Huayna is also far ahead, almost as far as Saladin. However, he hasn't built the Apollo program yet and we might be able to catch up. We might have to use spies on him if we can take out Saladin.

If it were up to me, I would use my turnset to build up troops to take out Saladin, maybe starting the war at the end of my turnset or the beginning of the next.

On the domestic side, we should probably revolt to State Property, and we might also want to switch to Beauracracy to help Berlin produce the Apollo Program/SS parts quicker. We are running 50% science/20%culture. Any reason why we shouldn't run 70% science?

I will wait for comments before I play.
 
20 % culture is needed to keep all population happy. We had a lot of trades with Qin before we declared on him. Loosing luxuries such as silk ang gem is 4 happiness. So we need culture for some cities, Essen and Satsuma are two of them.
 
Nice analysis. With no War Weariness to worry about, I don't see any reason to keep the culture slider @ 20%.

If a Diplo win is out, and we already are far behind in the Space Race, then challenging Saladin seems the right thing to do. If we can take out Saladin, perhaps a Domination win is still possible?
 
Krockel said:
20 % culture is needed to keep all population happy. We had a lot of trades with Qin before we declared on him. Loosing luxuries such as silk ang gem is 4 happiness. So we need culture for some cities, Essen and Satsuma are two of them.
I see. Perhaps another war with Qin, then to capture his resources!!:)
 
When I just went into the save and turned down Culture to 0, we still didn't have unhapppy people in our homeland (maybe in the Japanes colonies, but I didn't check. We might be able to get back on trading terms with Qin, which would be nice.

Sorry I couldn't play, we had a power outage last night. Will play today.
 
Played. We're definitely still in trouble but... I'll let you judge for yourselves.

0. Revolt to state property and Beauracracy (three turns). Change a few builds. Research 60% Culture 10%.

1. Moving ships/units. Discover a few more units (2 panzers, 3 cannons and a few infantry) who I didn't notice originally because they were either in ships or sitting on Saladin's border.

2. Stack is almost ready in Osaka. Basra will be the first target. Huayna Capac finishes The Apollo Program. :(

Osakastack0000.JPG

3. We get out of anarchy. Declare war and march our stack into Saladin's lands. We have ~7 panzers, 10 infantry, 5 cannons, and a cav or two. Basra is defended by 2 infantry, 2 SAM's, and an artillery.

IT: A stack of 8 Arabian cavs and an artillery arrives near our border. A few tanks also come out of hiding.

4. The Battle of Basra I: Huge and Bloody. We capture the city and kill off four of the cavalry stack + 1 tank. Unfourtunately, we also suffer heavy losses. 4 infantry and 2 panzers are killed (the panzers with more than 60% odds :mad: ).

IT. The Battle of Basra II: Saladin's counterattack. We only manage to kill one artillery as Saladin kills 3 more infantry and another Panzer and takes the city back.

5. Fortunately, Saladin only guards the city with one SAM, which means we can retake it easily. This time we are able to garrison our whole stak in the city. WW is already making our people unhappy, but we need science so badly that I hesitate to touch the slider.

6. Thankfully, Saladin does not have enough troops for a second counter. We start healing.

IT: An artillery attacks and we kill it.

7. Start Scotland Yard in Munich. We will almost certainly need spies to have any hope of victory.

8. Kill a SAM and pillage Saladin's aluminium. WW finally forces me to adjust to 50sci-20cult

9. Kill a pillaging tank.

10. Kill another pillaging tank and approach Damascus. It is lightly guarded, with only one infantry, two SAM's, and two Cavs.

The state of the battlefield:
statewar0000.JPG

I encourage each player to open the save and give advice, as the situation is hard to process without the save and the next turnset could be critical. Every turnset will probably be critical now.

Even if we manage to cripple Saladin, we will probably have to move on to Huayna quickly, as he is now rocketing ahead. Our best might be to take a few more cities of Saladin and pillage his best defended cities and then make a few quick strikes to raze HC's production centers. We might also need to use spies.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/JJ03_AD-1836.Civ4SavedGame
 
I have the save. I will play tomorrow.

I looked at the save, and I agree with Jeejeep that the situation is critical. Hopefully Damascus can quickly fall, but based on the power graph, Saladin has many more units further back in his empire. We do not look like we have enough troops for an extended campaign. My initial thought is to take Damascus, make peace, build units, upgrade the cannon to artillery, build some jails, and generally prepare to restart the war.

I don't think we can afford the anarchy time to do any civic switching at this point.

Our relations are pretty bad across the board. Our main advantage is in manufacturing capability (especially if we can knock Saladin down). I have not done this before, but we may be in a situation where pursuing nuclear war is a good strategy. This would mean researching Fission and starting the Manhattan project.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated.
 
I took a look at the save to and we have a narrow and smal way to victory.

We need to constantly pillage Saladin and Huaynas aluminium, maybe even Qins to.

I agree with ngraner that we don't have troops for a longer campaign. So take Damascus get peace and build Jails and more troops make sense.

Nukes could really help us. Personally I have no experience in using these kind of things, but I believe we should be able to use them better then the AI.

The biggest problem is to maintain researchrate while we're at war and building for a space race.
 
Saladin started my turn set by dropping a large invasion force next to Edo and sending pillaging Cavalry into our former Japanese lands. I had a decent shot at taking Damascus, but the city barely held. In the face of loosing Edo, I made peace.

The rest of the turn was spent building up infrastructure, upgrading troops, and shuttling new troops to Basra. Saladin was surprisingly ready to trade with us right after the war ended.

I am not clear on the turn count, but I stopped on an even date.

T1. Saladin lands invasion force next to Edo. Not pretty. The attack on Damascus falls short. I end up giving Saladin 300gp for peace.

Attack on Edo.JPG

T2. Artillery > Fission. Research rate set to 50% to generate gold for upgrades. Trade Pig to Saladin for 12gp/turn and Hit Musicals for Hit Singles. He is amazingly nice considering.

T3. Basra comes out of revolt. Trade Artillery to Elizabeth for Biology and 100gp. Trade Communism to Saladin for 1320gp, since I do not think he needs State Property.

T4. Finished the upgrade program and set research to 70%. Capac finishes a Casing.

T5-8. zzz.

T9. We lost out on the Pentagon :cry: , increased research to 100%.

JJ03 - 1845.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/JJ03_AD-1845.Civ4SavedGame
 
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