Jobs & Homeless

[Hydromancerx]

Here is another property idea this time involving jobs and homeless.

Jobs
One factor in games like Sim City is where you have residential demand and industrial and commercial demand. If you have more houses but not enough jobs then people will be without jobs. If you have too many jobs and not enough workers then the jobs will not get done. I was wondering if such a factor could be put in place for jobs.

Homeless
In the game Civ City Rome if you do not build enough houses for your people then people will become homeless. Likewise if you build too many houses then they just sit there as a fire hazard vacant and abandoned. I as wonder how such a factor of homeless and abandoned buildings could be applied to C2C.

Please post your ideas on how these ideas might be applied to C2C.

 

[Il Principe]

My first idea would be to count simple citizens specialists as unemployed, giving and probably .
The basicly pile up in cities were all tiles are already worked and all other "real" specialists slots taken, so they fit the describtion. The actual effect of them could depend on your welfare civic.

As for houses: You could make clone buildings of the existing ones, only buildable if the original ones are already build and the population is big enough. A rather rough way, but probably easy to do.
A better simulation would be to have them be available at all times but give them a housing capazity value, that is then compared to the city size, giving boni/mali dependend on that comparison. But that might be a nightmare to do, because all housings would also need to interact with each other.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well, in a simple perspective, I'd say every population adds +1 Joblessness and +1 Homelessness in the city, countered by thoughtful editing of existing buildings that allows an astute player to rather easily keep up with the needs as time goes on.

The only thing that would throw a gear into the works would be that economic equality that allows for people to purchase and maintain homes that are available is not always prevalent in a society (aka, modern USA) which would be potentially difficult to reproduce. Capturing the element of such a dynamic would take a bit more than the above noted linear thinking and would most certainly be heavily involved in civic selections and perhaps a whole 'nother property that helps us understand the financial demographics of our citizenry.

Some will simply be homeless because they are broke, addicted to drugs, gambling, mentally unhealthy, failed at financial risks, etc... and no amount of providing housing will help unless you provide some strongly expensive social services.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Thunderbrd

Well in Sim City 4 they had Education of the population. Thus the "smarter" your sims were the more high tech jobs they could get. Also different zones and wealth levels influenced this. Such as Lower Wealth ment it could fill lower paying jobs such as "Blue Collar" stuff.

 

[Koshling]

I am cautious of adding new elements like this unlss you can see a way in which they add something distinctive to gameplay. What will these add (gameplay wise) that isn't directly analagous to the management of health/happyness?

 

[Faustmouse]

You could have buildings that "produce" workers and some that "consume" workers. If you want to build a consuming building, you need to have at least X unused workers. Like in the online-Game "Icewars" if anyone knows that

But beside this, i dont like the idea of adding such a think... there already is a mechanism that you need to have 6 pop to build a specific building.

 

[ls612]

I am cautious of adding new elements like this unlss you can see a way in which they add something distinctive to gameplay. What will these add (gameplay wise) that isn't directly analagous to the management of health/happyness?

Properties should be more or less unique and not implementable through the existing systems in city/unit stats.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I am cautious of adding new elements like this unlss you can see a way in which they add something distinctive to gameplay. What will these add (gameplay wise) that isn't directly analagous to the management of health/happyness?

This is more of a brainstorming of ideas. Unlike say crime where I had more or less a solid idea on how it should work this was more of a vague idea I wanted to get feedback on. This would be far, FAR down the line if it is added at all.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Hydromancerx, you are pretty useful when it comes to making ideas! I also like how you've pulled ideas from Sim City, I believe there's a lot to gain from that game, regarding cities. But if we were to add another property like this, I see it better as being a "Power" property.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@CIVPlayer8

Well Power, Garbage, Eduction, Water Pollution and Air Pollution are all possible properties from Sim City which we may want to convert. Even things like "lifespan" we may want to consider.

 

[Faustmouse]

I had another idea this night:

The "free workers" are scaled with citysize depending on civics and tech level (child labour, amount of people "to old to work" or "can't work because of heavy lasting injurities).
All buildings have a value of how many people they need. These values also have to be affected by several techs like robots or industrial era stuff. Growing to big to fast means unemployment that rise crime, produce unhappiness and maybe (in early times) kills people. Keep in mind that people working plots or specialists are also employed. And I think you also must have some free people to build units in a city.

One big problem that pops in my mind is, that there will be a huge unemployment in modern eras when almost everything can be done from robots...

 

[hotrodlincoln]

If the mod goes down this road, the labor civics should be made more complex. For instance, having slave labor would afford the greatest production, but would also cause massive amounts of unrest and unhappiness on it's own, and indirectly would lead to further unrest/unhappiness due to it creating widespread unemployment. There aren't many factory jobs in a society that has slaves to do it, after all.

Then you would have child labor, which would be similiar to slavery in that it would be very productive, but cause unrest/unhappiness. It too would create unemployment, as adults would be unwilling to work the wages that street children would.

A communist style labor civic would pretty much eliminate unemployment, as everyone would be given a job by the state. However the lack of job advancement and oppressive environment would lead to even greater unhappiness/unrest. This one would be the most productive and have 0 unemployment, but you would have to combine this one with a civic that reduces revolt instability, or be willing to use more brutal methods of keeping your populace in line.

A capitalist style labor civic would generate plenty of income, as well as having a balanced level of production/unhappiness/unrest. The biggest drawback is that this civic would produce a significant amount of unemployment, though no more so than slavery or child labor.

A socialist style labor civic would have a low rate of unemployment, and the lowest by far rate of unhappiness/unrest. The drawback is that it would be very expensive to run, and would not be as productive as the other labor civics.


Those are just some rough ideas. I like where this is going, though.

Perhaps these could, in some ways, even be combined. Slavery and Child Labor are not mutually exclusive with these other forms of labor civic, after all. The US has always been a capitalist, free market economy, but we have in the past employed slavery and child labor. Nazi Germany was socialist, but they employed slavery. These are just a few examples off the top of my head.

 

[anunknownman]

@CIVPlayer8

Well Power, Garbage, Eduction, Water Pollution and Air Pollution are all possible properties from Sim City which we may want to convert. Even things like "lifespan" we may want to consider.

i completley agree bring all of those into c2c!!!!!!!

they would ,make city managment way cooler!

 

[Azurian]

@CIVPlayer8

Well Power, Garbage, Eduction, Water Pollution and Air Pollution are all possible properties from Sim City which we may want to convert. Even things like "lifespan" we may want to consider.

We can consider Public Utilities[/B] under this branch (combine Well Power, Garbage, Water Pollution and Air Pollution)

Low Public Utilities = + : + -Sanitation
High Public Utilities - - +Sanitation


We can use the same system as Crime, but provide positive benefits instead of negatives.

Sewage (Chronological Order- moving up increases sanitation)
Dung Pile
Cesspits
Chamber Pots
Outhouses
Flush toilets
Septic tanks
Municipal Sewer System
AI Sewage Treatment Plant

Water Supply (Chronological Order-moving up increases sanitation))
Rainwater Harvesting
Water Well
Aqueduct
Indoor Pluming
Water Tap
Modern Reservoir
Municipal Water System
AI Desalination Plant

power (Chronological Order)
Hydro's Buildings

Garbage
Garbage Pile
Garbage Ditch
Composting
Ban Street Dumping
Garbage Landfill
Recycling
Municipal Garbage Collection
AI Garbage Trucks

All combined under Public Utilities. We can have things that lower sanitation as well.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@MrAzure

I have some good water buildings already. Check out my Water Mod.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Bumping for bill2505.

 

[bill2505]

Bumping for bill2505.

its great we had the same idea(but i added the idea of buildings using manpower or population to work plus a new manpower or population mechanism because this one is inefficient
my ideas in a few words

1 a new manpower mechanism (that will replace or not the correct one)
2 every city will start will a few population and will have a yearly or every turn growth that will increase or decrease in a balanced way by certain buildings(like health....) or techs like rtw games
3 house will would raise the population limit
4 urbanization throught techs
5 every building like factory will substract from your population ( to portray the fact that buildings need mapower to work)
6 as you know in civ games when you build a building you dont build only one but many . in order for my suggestion to work better i suggest (my suggestion is optional because i thing something like this would be difficult to do) koslink or someone that is good at coding to change this system only for houses and somehow make the house building buildable again( again and again to represent that your building only one house)

 

[Hydromancerx]

 

[anunknownman]

say hydro are u planning this for the next realese??? that would be awesome to mod with

 

[Hydromancerx]

I don't know exactly how I want it to work yet. So no.